Make it a crime to be gay: Alliance MP

OTTAWA -- Canadian Alliance MP Larry Spencer, his party's family issues critic, says he'd support any initiative to put homosexuality back in the Criminal Code of Canada.

The U.S.-born former Baptist pastor also argues that the gay- rights movement's recent successes in areas like same-sex marriage stem from a "well-orchestrated ... conspiracy" that began in the 1960s.

The conspiracy included the seduction and recruitment of young boys in playgrounds and locker rooms and the deliberate infiltration of North America's judiciary, schools, the religious community, and the entertainment industry, he said.

The movement's progress in gaining public acceptance for homosexuality would have been slowed, however, had Pierre Elliott Trudeau not legalized homosexuality in 1969, according to the MP.

"I do believe it was a mistake to have legalized it," Spencer (Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre) told The Vancouver Sun.

While he said no Canadian government would likely have the "courage" to reverse Trudeau's decision to remove the state from the nation's bedrooms, Spencer would support any bill that advocated such a move.

"If somebody brought a bill in the House to do that I'd certainly vote for it. Yeah, I'd like to see that [to] be the case. It's not that I would want spies in everybody's bedroom or anybody following anybody.

People who have been practising homosexuals for most of their adult lives, like New Democratic MP Svend Robinson, could transform themselves into heterosexuals.

"I believe he could. I believe he would struggle with it," said Spencer, pointing out that someone could hate long-distance running or weightlifting but then train themselves in that area and learn to love it.

"So the human body can be sensitized or de-sensitized. The mind or the conscience that we have can be sharpened against right or wrong. It can be de-sensitized to think that whatever wrong that's around us is nothing but natural and we begin to accept that."

"I just wish that there was some way that society could stand up and say, 'This is not right.' "

But Spencer said any MP, and especially someone from his party, risks being labelled "a redneck or a hate-monger or homophobic" if they even mention such views in Parliament.

Spencer's pronouncements come at a difficult time for his party, which is stickhandling a merger with the Progressive Conservative party.

Delegates from both parties are due to vote on a ratification of the merger Dec. 6.

He made his comments during an hour-long interview after The Vancouver Sun obtained a copy of an e-mail from Spencer to a Canadian citizen outlining his conspiracy theory. The Sun requested an interview so Spencer could elaborate on his views.

"I'm being very, very free here to talk with you against all advice probably that I should ever talk to any reporter to this kind of link," he said near the end of the interview.

"But you know I'm feeling very, very deprived, you know, of my rights in that I cannot say openly -- I dare not say it in the House of Commons, even -- the full extent of what I really believe on some of these issues."

Spencer said the conspiracy began with a speech by a U.S. gay rights activist in the 1960s whose name he couldn't recall.

"His quote went something like this ... 'We will seduce your sons in the locker rooms, in the gymnasiums, in the hallways, in the playgrounds, and on and on, in this land.'

"It was quite a long quote stating what was going to happen to the young boys of North America."

Spencer said one of the major steps was to encourage followers to enter the ministry of various churches and to infiltrate North America's schools and teaching colleges.

"The activists that organized in those days (encouraged) people of their persuasion to enter into educational fields, and to do this with the feeling of a mission, you know, of going out there as pioneers in a -- quote-- human rights area, and I think they were successful as we've seen."

He said those who sympathize with homosexuals in today's judiciary, educational system, the entertainment industry, and churches aren't directly linked to the people who launched the conspiracy.

"I would think that is so long ago that we're seeing the outworkings of it decades down the line. And to say there's a conspiracy now is going to raise eyebrows, and (people will) say, 'Well, I don't think so. It's just the natural evolution.'

"But there are things, like what we're talking about, that once you set in motion, it's like shoving a snowball off the edge of the barn roof. Once you set it in motion you don't have to keep pushing. It sort of keeps going. It's that slippery slope that we talk about."

Trudeau, while justice minister, announced sweeping changes to the Criminal Code in 1967 that included legalizing homosexual acts done in private involving consenting adults. The bill wasn't passed until 1969, when the late Trudeau was prime minister.

Previously, those convicted of buggery or bestiality could be sentenced to a maximum 14 years in jail.

"There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation," Trudeau said famously after tabling the bill.

Spencer said he wouldn't want homosexuals to ever go to jail as a result of their "choice" to engage in homosexual acts.

"I wouldn't even suggest that there would be a penalty. I just think it's so sad that we have to take an issue like this and be asked to put the Good Housekeeping seal of approval on it without being allowed to tell the truth and talk about facts."

He said one of those "facts" is that homosexuals, due to AIDS and other health problems, have a far lower life expectancy than straight men. (A search by The Vancouver Sun's library failed to find evidence supporting Spencer's statement.)

"Let's just say if ... anybody that used Colgate toothpaste, their life expectancy was lowered by 10, 15 years. What do you think would happen to Colgate toothpaste? It would be outlawed. Well, we know that's what happens to men living a gay lifestyle."

Spencer said some of his constituents fear the proposed Alliance-Progressive Conservative merger could make it more difficult for the merged party to take strong positions on social conservative issues.

But he pointed out that most of the Tory caucus voted with the Alliance in opposing the Liberal government's plan to legalize same-sex marriage.

Spencer said he would welcome gay Tory MP Scott Brison, who supports the merger, but has voiced concern that the party could be perceived as socially intolerant, as a caucus colleague.

"He's a great guy and he's got a lot of great ideas. If he can live with us we can live with him."

Spencer, 61, was born in Missouri and moved to Canada in 1974. He became a Canadian citizen in 1999, a year before he narrowly beat former New Democratic Party MP John Solomon.

"Polygamy is next on the list. More than one (spouse) ... We'll see that within the next very, very few years. Pedophilia is being pursued as we speak ... Some will say down to an eight-year-old, they think it's okay."

- He said he believes homosexuality, rather than being part of someone's nature, is something that is developed by young people who struggle with their identity in relation to a parent, such as an "overbearing mother" or cold father.

Pedophilia is being pursued as we speak ... Some will say down to an eight-year-old, they think it's okay."

Pedophiles Seek Online Support
Societal Acceptance (CNSNews.com) -

At the website Girl-Love Garden, pedophiles are on a "quest" for social acceptance of their sexual preferences and "the emancipation of girls of all ages and 'girl love,' in general."

As part of the website, the GirlChat Committee notes that "true emancipation" begins "neither in the polls nor in the world's courtrooms," but "in a child's sublime assent to becoming self actualized with the keen-eyed help of a loving mentor (gardener) who is willing to carefully fertilize and tend to the growth of the emotions, spirit and intellectual flora of the garden of a child's soul - in comparison with which everything else is small.

"We as girl lovers believe that statement to be axiomatic," the committee continues in its mission statement on the website. "Equally as axiomatic, perhaps, is the view that adults who are naturally, sensuously attracted to little girls and blossoming young women, in a similar vein, will achieve full emancipation only by clothing their souls with a childlike personality and agreeing to 'play safe' with each other and the good earth by consensus - as opposed to authoritarian decree."

Here visitors find "an oasis of shade" among the "refreshing waters of reason" where they are invited to "drink deeply of the exquisite delights to be found herein by Girl Lovers everywhere."

But "boylovers" need not feel left out. At Free Spirits, they learn that "boylovers have not chosen of their free will to become so."

"It is an attraction most discover within themselves at a very early age," the site explains. "Through no action of their own, they find themselves considered horrible and vile. Most people who are attracted to minors try to live good lives but find no encouragement from a society and a press that labels all people with that attraction, whatever they do or don't do, as evil monsters."

Developers of "BoyChat," the chat room at Free Spirits, admit it "is not a board in which well-meaning social workers firmly guide people the way they think they ought to go." BoyChat "is run by boylovers for boylovers. It encourages its posters to work freely through their own issues and questions."

Girl-Love Garden's GirlChat claims to be "committed to working vigorously to build our resource into a multi-lingual celebration of the exquisite delights of young girls and teenage women, and to further human rights and equality for all persons regardless of race, creed, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability or age."

The operators of both the Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden websites are free to express their views because of the anonymity of the Internet. There are many other online sites catering to "MAAs" (Minor-Attracted Adults, which some pedophiles prefer to call themselves) and claiming to advocate for the civil rights and acceptance of "the most underserved and misunderstood sexual minority remaining in today's human society," according to the Free Spirits mission statement.

Along with chat rooms, these sites include members' galleries where visitors may "Peruse a delightful section of members' Web Pages that provides personal, historical and literary insights for Girl Lovers - as well as a selection of wonderfully expressive poetry," a "Close Encounters Digest" - "a message board where both people who are attracted to boys and/or girls significantly younger than themselves and people who do not share that attraction could come to discuss all of the various issues related to emotional, romantic and sexual relationships between boys or girls and older people."

According to Barry Maddox, spokesperson for the FBI's Baltimore, Md., office, the sites are "totally legal." Maddox told CNSNews.com the sites come close to breaking the law but do not break it.

"They've done their homework," Maddox said.
Pornographic images, literature or any other sexually explicit content are nowhere to be found on these sites.

"Girl Moments," or stories describing an encounter with a female adolescent that are "tasteful," "well written and that are couched from a view that highlights friendships or other light-hearted encounters," are welcome at Girl-Love Garden, according to its frequently asked questions (FAQ) section. But it warns visitors not to "include details that evoke a prurient interest in sexual relations.

"Written materials that appear erotic or that advocate or counsel engaging in sexual activity with a minor constitutes a very serious offence" under the criminal codes of Canada, the U.S. and the United Kingdom, the FAQ warns, adding that "your material must be in full compliance with these laws so that when viewed with a prejudicial eye, they could not be seen as openly advocating, counseling, inducing, nor encouraging sexual intimacy with minors."

"We're only interested in those who act upon these impulses," Maddox said. While legal, he added, the sites "do make me sick to my stomach."

Ruben Rodriguez, director of the Exploited Children Unit at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, told CNSNews.com that while he "loves" the Internet, sites like Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden "have turned sections of it into a sewer."

"Many of these pedophiles act out on their impulses," Rodriguez said. "These kinds of sites are not something I would welcome."

Rodriguez said all the disclaimers and attempts at de-stigmatizing the "deviant sexual behavior" of pedophiles online are "just excuses" for them to "sit in front of a monitor and masturbate." He expressed "disgust" at the notion of society accepting pedophiles as another minority group.

"I see us sometimes going down a different path," Rodriguez said. "I don't see it getting better, I see it getting worse...going in a direction sometimes that just drives me crazy."

Some MAAs claiming to be Christians say they have found comfort at a website called Philia (http://phila.ws), "which provides news and resources to religious support groups for adults who are attracted to minors." Philia, along with the Christian Boylove Forum (CBLF), are for those who "find themselves in the position of having no one to turn to who shares their faith as well as their sexual feelings.

"This (online message) board attempts to fill that gap by providing a friendly, safe place where we can be honest about our feelings and struggles with sexuality and faith, without fear of destructive criticism or harassment," the CBLF site states. "This is a place for mutual encouragement, support and advice as we seek to deal with our sexuality and society's reaction to it in responsible and healthy ways, to live out our lives with integrity and to express our faith in a way that honors God and demonstrates the love of Jesus Christ to all people."

Both sites are run by "Bach" - the screen name used to protect his identity - a boylover who related to CNSNews.com vie e-mail that he has never acted upon his feelings and that he found support through a Christian service agency with which he volunteered.

"I am in a committed relationship with another man and have found that I am able to gain some satisfaction with this compromise," Bach wrote. "We discussed the fact that many message boards didn't allow for a Christian boylover to explore his faith in the context of his sexuality. We were often confronted with boylovers who had a strong hatred for the church, and we were constantly defending ourselves. This was the impetus to form the Christian Boylove Forum."

From CBLF sprung "Christian Consultations," "an annual gathering to bring together Christians (and some non-Christians) who are willing to enter into dialogue about adult attraction to minors," according to the Philia website.

"We have had involvement at the Christian Consultation from various pastors, Christian service workers, members of...Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Persons," Bach stated in the e-mail to CNSNews.com. "The goal of these encounters was to provide a non-threatening place for dialogue ...to help break isolation and fear.

"I would hope that Christians could come to accept that minor-attracted adults are not monsters, not sex maniacs, not uncontrolled freaks, but folks who have to live their lives with a desire that is demonized by society and the media to an extent that they are fearful to speak of it to anyone," Bach explained.

Julie Posey, a self-described "cyber-crime fighter" runs the website Pedowatch.org. Posey's website claims that "since 1996, she has passed on hundreds of tips to law enforcement involving child sexual predators who use the Internet as a tool to gain access to children who are later sexually assaulted and in rare instances murdered."

Posey is also the author of They Call Me Kendra, which Pedowatch.org describes as an autobiography of "her life experiences as a sexually abused child and tells how she later became one of the nation's leading experts on child sexual predators."

Kendra was the onscreen name Posey used to trap sexual predators online. She told CNSNews.com that Christian Consultation sounded a lot like prison ministers who work with convicted pedophiles.

"They go into prisons and try to help the families," Posey said. "They say, 'Oh, what your loved one did isn't so wrong...he has a love for boys,' and they try to get them (the family) to accept it. But they're trying to get all of society to just accept it, and it's unacceptable to me."

Posey said sites like Free Spirits and Girl-Love Garden are "just working to make their stories sound good.

"I read the North American Man Boy Lovers Association's manifesto one time, and they were like 'sex is actually good for kids,'...well, I can tell you it's not," Posey said. "If society doesn't get a grip right now - and even right now it's going to be difficult, they are definitely going to have the same rights that we have."

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