DEBATE CLOSED? (court's homosexual marriage ruling stirs hornet's nest)

NY POST ^ | 11/30/03 | GEORGE WILL

[Liz]

When Massachusetts' highest court asserted that same-sex marriage is a right protected by the state's constitution and entailed by recent U.S. Supreme Court reasoning about the U.S. Constitution, the president vowed to "do what is legally necessary to defend the sanctity of marriage."

[OPS4]

Modern day Sodomites will have the same end as the original sinners in Sodom and Gomorah, a free pass to hell, and some salt statues.

Ops4 God Bless America!

[gunnedah]

The sanctity of marriage is not in question. It is the moral fabric of America that is in question along with what the outcome will be.I most probably wont be here to see it but you can bet your bottom dollar the payback will be "Hell"!
Lawyers have succeeded in destroying the American culture but in all fairness they couldnt have had we not wanted and allowed it to be.

[speedy]

I agree. The moral rot of the past decades could only have happened with the support of a large number, and the acquiescence of a large majority, of the American people. Not most of us here, I dare say, but among the general population.

[Liz]

The moral rot of the past decades could only have happened with the support of a large number, and the acquiescence of a large majority, of the American people. Not most of us here, I dare say, but among the general population.

The problem is that this supersecret cabal of hate-filled individuals work in secret and b/c of their furtiveness, most Americans (not we on FR, natch) do not know of the cabal's activities.

Moreover, elite, hate-filled cultists like Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, and so on, loathe humanity--meaning those who espouse the principles of Christianity--and center their efforts on dis-establishing laws which we consider sacred.

This dangerous cult of America-haters do all their nefarious work secretly through the courts.

Cultural changes of this magnitude should be achieved theough legislation so that all of us have a say in the matter. However, the hate-America crowd avoid public discussion like the plague.

They know they would lose in the court of public opinion.

[KC_Conspirator]

One is that law can do what the culture - immensely powerful and largely autonomous - has undone.

I don't see this as culture. The fact is that only a minority of leftist activists in the courts, entertainment, and academia support this filth.

[Houmatt]

Lawyers have succeeded in destroying the American culture but in all fairness they couldnt have had we not wanted and allowed it to be.

Exactly. It is like we do not have the balls to stand up to these bozos and tell them what they can go do with themselves.

One might say, Well, I cannot afford to go into a courtroom whenever someone threatens me with litigation.

I say, then don't. If someone is intimidating you or bullying you into getting what they want in spite of your rights as an American by threatening litigation, you tell them to stick it.

You stand up to them, and don't back down.

That is what happened when the ACLU threatened to sue a school in California for putting the legend, "God Bless America" on their outdoor sign. The ACLU blinked.

[Houmatt]

Why do you think Planned Parenthood et al is so dead set against allowing the people to have a say when it comes to abortion?

[speedy]

Liz, I agree that the America-haters operate in the shadows and have achieved much of their agenda through the courts. However, I do think that at some point, the people have a responsibility to pay enough attention to what is going on in the world to make it their business, as we do here, to demand changes. A part of this is electing the right people to public office. I think most Americans are politically naive, and we can survive that much of the time. But at times of crisis, such as now, people simply have an obligation to develop at least an elementary political awareness. Easier said than done, as the old song put it, but it is still within the power of the people to reclaim the culture if they feel strongly enough about it.

[GeekDejure]

Modern day Sodomites will have the same end as the original sinners in Sodom and Gomorah, a free pass to hell, and some salt statues.

A father was reading Bible stories about Sodom and Gomorah to his young son. He read, "The man named Lot was warned to take his wife and flee out of the city, but his wife looked back and was turned to salt." His son asked, "What happened to the flea???" ;-))

.

[Ff--150]

BTTT Post #6!

[singsong]

However, I do think that at some point, the people have a responsibility to pay enough attention to what is going on in the world to make it their business,

There is so much media sh*t around that it's hard to find a clean spot to set your attention on. Movies, TV, papers, schools you name it. Our social memory has been hijacked. The media prepares the ground, the unelected judges legitimize it. It's a political problem. More checks and balances are necessary. The world have changed.

[Askel5]

Amazing. I'll bet there are many who believe this article makes a case against homosexual marriage even as, in fact, it's only criticizing the manner in which the re-form of marriage is being unduly hastened by the courts.

Society has steadily accommodated widespread adoption and childrearing by same-sex couples, the sympathetic portrayal of homosexuality in popular culture and the extension of employment and other benefits to same-sex couples (as one-third of Fortune 500 companies already do).

Heil, Corporate Governance! (Gorbachev and his World State groupies are probably bustin' a button over that line.)

But remember, until the Supreme Court ripped abortion policy away from legislatures - arenas of persuasion - America was more or less amicably adjusting conflicting views: In the five years before Roe vs. Wade (1973), 16 states with 41 percent of America's population liberalized abortion laws. After courts put abortion policy - as they may yet put marriage law - largely beyond political debate in the states, bitterness became constant.

Beautiful ...

We should avoid enshrining in law those new Self-Evident Truths to which the American public is steadily being Educated.

The GOP had this much figured out long ago ... as they kicked open the door to abortion, discovered the "right" to predetermine the sex of one's children and announced the Government's moral obligation to regulate births and (possibly) increase the death rate as the crisis in population warranted.

As they said in 1970:

The government can provide leadership and direction but should never be put into a position of having to enact controls on population as a result of public ignorance and indifference.

If only the homosexuals could be as savvy about re-forming marriage as the GOP was about re-forming the various "honest and free" reproductive choices of Americans.

They might well have served to restore the "sanctity" of marriage Will quite rightly argues heteros have somehow lost.

Until then, chalk up another issue by which the American populace may be rendered into perfectly predictable voting blocs ... on the liberal side, anyway, where there exist "litmus tests" on issues of personal interpretation such as abortion and homosexual marriage.

The conservatives being free always to compromise objective truths -- such as "all men are created equal" -- in order to "win" or to advance the occasional "humanitarian" objective, such as ESCR.

[Askel5]

But if the meaning of marriage and the right to marital status is sufficiently defined with reference to "autonomy of the self . . . [in] certain intimate conduct," what principled, nonarbitrary ground is there for denying the right of marriage to, say, a threesome whose members insist that it is necessary for their self-fulfillment through intimacy?

Gotta love the gratuitous bogeyman which may help to keep conservatives opposed to homosexual marriage in a more predictable fashion.

Given that homosexual "marriage" was once every bit as unthinkable -- though now Fortune 500 companies evidence in policy the shift in American mores -- it's a little stupid to pretend there's a line in the sand against which we cannot possibly cross.

Read your own article, George.

[GeekDejure]

Amazing. I'll bet there are many who believe this article makes a case against homosexual marriage even as, in fact, it's only criticizing the manner in which the re-form of marriage is being unduly hastened by the courts.

Yikes!!! Help!!!

My computer just proposed to my Motherboard !!! ;-))

.

[Liz]

I suggest you go over to DU and pose your question there.

[Liz]

.....law can do what the culture - immensely powerful and largely autonomous - has undone. ...... I don't see this as culture. The fact is that only a minority of leftist activists in the courts, entertainment, and academia support this filth.

That's so true. We are faced with an elite cult of activists with the accent on active. However the turf they control -- as you outlined -- academia, media, courts -- are powerful venues to effect their secret agendas.

One of the Big Sticks wielded by the Hollywarped crowd is the ability to proselytize -- that is to brainwash audiences without their knowledge or consent.

What is happening in our schools is a travesty what with Planned P'hood and liberal teachers brainwashing children.

That is why we should thank God for the internet and for FR. Now we can gather to share information--which was not possible before--and hopefully get our points across where it matters.

[Houmatt]

What is that supposed to mean? I asked an honest, straightforward question.

[templar]

Modern day Sodomites will have the same end as the original sinners in Sodom and Gomorah, a free pass to hell, and some salt statues.

Along with all those that aid and abet them as well, I think. Nations are judged in time, people in eternity.