Vatican asked Gibson for a copy of "The Passion of

ROME ( Entertainment - Variety ^ | Sun Nov 30, 7:00 PM ET | NICK VIVARELLI

[joobers]

Entertainment - Variety

'PASSION' PIQUES VATICAN Sun Nov 30, 7:00 PM ET

NICK VIVARELLI

ROME (Variety) --- The Vatican (news - web sites) is seeking to enter the ring in the mounting controversy surrounding Mel Gibson (news)'s "The Passion of Christ."

Italian officials close to the Holy See have asked Gibson for a copy of "The Passion of Christ," which they want to screen during a conference on theology and cinema to be held next week in Rome.

"Gibson has not fully committed yet, but we will very probably hold a closed-door screening for (theological) experts," said Andrea Piersanti, head of the Catholic entertainment entity Ente dello Spettacolo. "This way, we will be able to form our own serene and detached opinion of the film," added Piersanti, who is also president of Italy's government film body, Istituto Luce.

The conference, "Christ in Film: A Cinematic Canon," is organized by the Vatican's social communications office, headed by American Archbishop John Foley, and by the Holy See's culture office.

According to Italian press reports, Foley in September lavished praise on "Passion" in September and denied that Gibson's film has an anti-Semitic message. But the Vatican has since sought to distance itself from Foley's comment.

Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement that does not recognize the pope's authority over the Roman Catholic church.

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[E. Pluribus Unum]

"This way, we will be able to form our own serene and detached opinion of the film," added Piersanti, who is also president of Italy's government film body, Istituto Luce.

Sound like they're getting ready to do a hatchet job.

[anniegetyourgun]

I understand it is biblically accurate. That, in and of itself, could create heartburn for many.

[rface]

Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement that does not recognize the pope's authority over the Roman Catholic church.

I know about the conservative Catholic part - but is the part about recognition of the the Pope's athority true??

[k2blader]

Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement that does not recognize the pope's authority over the Roman Catholic church.

I've been curious about this for a while.

Would anyone have any more info on the "ultraconservative movement" Gibson supposedly subscribes to?

It interests me that Mel has shown the film to Protestant ministers but (as of yet and so far as I know) not to the Vatican.

[AngryJawa]

Sounds like someone doesn't want to stand in line and pay his eight bucks like everyone else...8^)

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

Would anyone have any more info on the "ultraconservative movement" Gibson supposedly subscribes to?

>>>

I think he's a Pius V sedevacantist (translation: someone who holds that the See of Peter is vacant and that there have been no valid popes since Pius X who died in 1959-- John XXIII (II) and Paul VI and JP I and JP II are all 'antipopes').

More Catholic than the Pope iow. Although a hell of a moviemaker. Looking forward to seeing it.

[onyx]

Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement that does not recognize the pope's authority over the Roman Catholic church.

What? Both my husband and I are Roman Catholic. He's devout, with many uncles in the priesthood, and we are at a loss to 'name' this particular movement, assuming of course, that such a movement exists.

[k2blader]

Thank you! I'll have to look further into that.

I've been a fan of Mel's for a long time now, but this film in particular is a truly remarkable endeavor on his part. I'd even venture to say it is inspired.

Planning to see it on opening day. :-)

[WHBates]

"I think he's a Pius V sedevacantist (translation: someone who holds that the See of Peter is vacant and that there have been no valid popes since Pius X who died in 1959-- John XXIII (II) and Paul VI and JP I and JP II are all 'antipopes')."

Don't you mean Pius XII? I don't think that many of these groups even think John XXIII is an Antipope? But taking away the traditional mass torqued off lots of folks.

[WHBates]

"I think he's a Pius V sedevacantist (translation: someone who holds that the See of Peter is vacant and that there have been no valid popes since Pius X who died in 1959-- John XXIII (II) and Paul VI and JP I and JP II are all 'antipopes')."

Don't you mean Pius XII? I don't think that many of these groups even think John XXIII is an Antipope? But taking away the traditional mass torqued off lots of folks.

[TheCrusader]

"What? Both my husband and I are Roman Catholic. He's devout, with many uncles in the priesthood, and we are at a loss to 'name' this particular movement, assuming of course, that such a movement exists."

Gibson is being accused of everything, by everyone. This stuff about "an ultra conservative Catholic movement" (that doesn't recognize the Pope), is misleading. There are a few Catholics who think that because the Vatican is quite liberal these days that the Holy Father is usurping the Throne of Peter. These Catholics are called "sedevacantists", (literally, 'the seat is vacant'). But even these folks still believe in the Papacy itself. Their position is that the last three Popes have been too liberal, bordering on heresy, hence they can't be true representatives of the Holy See. If Gibson is one of them, so be it. But until he says so himself I refuse to buy it.

In any case, no matter what his feelings on the Pope, his movie about Christ's last hours on earth must be supremely factual and Biblically accurate, or else it would not be generating all the adversity from the A.D.L. and other anti-Christians.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I understand it is biblically accurate. That, in and of itself, could create heartburn for many.

Especially the Jesuits.

[Looking for Diogenes]

Traditional Catholic
Traditional Catholic is a term used to describe those Roman Catholics who reject (for instance as modernistic) some or all of the reforms instituted after the Second Vatican Council, especially the Novus Ordo Missae, that is the revised rite of Mass. They are to be distinguished from conservative Catholics who may merely prefer the older Tridentine Mass, codified as the "Mass for all Times" by Pope Pius V's Quo Primum which stated, "We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used."
(more info and links can be found at the Wikipedia link.)

Wikipedia

[Centurion2000]

interesting

[OpusatFR]

"According to Italian press reports, Foley in September lavished praise on "Passion" in September and denied that Gibson's film has an anti-Semitic message. But the Vatican has since sought to distance itself from Foley's comment."

The Vatican itself? Or is this the notorious, ~They~, Unamed Sources~, Those Close to~, Overheard, As Told To~, or just some speculation.

I don't trust anything in the news anymore. Especially with just about all the media agendized.

[LisaMalia]

I haven't been to a movie theatre in AGES, I'm very picky about who gets my $$$s anymore. I am looking forward to seeing this movie on the day it opens.

[KriegerGeist]

This is whhat has been written about him and his Catholisism:

"The Passion," which Mel Gibson co-wrote and is currently directing in and around Rome, Gibson appears increasingly driven to express a theology only hinted at in his previous works.

That theology is a strain of Catholicism rooted in the dictates of a 16th-century papal council and nurtured by a splinter group of conspiracy-minded Catholics, mystics, monarchists and disaffected conservatives -- including a seminary dropout and rabble-rousing theologist who also happens to be Mel Gibson's father.

Gibson is the star practitioner of this movement, which is known as Catholic traditionalism. Seeking to maintain the faith as it was understood before the landmark Second Vatican Council of 1962-1965, traditionalists view modern reforms as the work of either foolish liberals or hellbent heretics.

They generally operate outside the authority or oversight of the official church, often maintaining their own chapels, schools, seminaries and clerical orders.<p. Central to the movement is the Tridentine Mass, the Latin rite that was codified by the Council of Trent in the 16th century and remained in place until the Second Vatican Council deemed that Mass should be held in the popular language of each country. Latin, however, is just the beginning -- traditionalists refrain from eating meat on Fridays, and traditionalist women wear headdresses in church. The movement seeks to revive an orthodoxy uncorrupted by the theological and social changes of the last 300 years or so.

[Mr. Lucky]

...an ultraconservative Catholic movement that does not recognize the Pope's authority..."

Ummm, doesn't that make them Lutherans?

[onyx]

Thanks to both of you for the information.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statement, TC.

To wit: In any case, no matter what his feelings on the Pope, his movie about Christ's last hours on earth must be supremely factual and Biblically accurate, or else it would not be generating all the adversity from the A.D.L. and other anti-Christians.