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Arnold's first defeat
Sacramento Bee ^ | 12/6/03 | Dan Weintraub

Posted on 12/06/2003 1:07:16 PM PST by ambrose

Edited on 04/12/2004 6:01:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Arnold Schwarzenegger considers himself a master strategist. But in the heat of his first legislative battle, he seems to have lost sight of what his goal really was. He ended up losing while fighting for something he didn't really need and might not have even wanted. Having morphed from Arnold Schwarzenegger into Gov. Schwarzenegger, he allowed himself to get sucked into the very kind of non-sensical partisan deadlock that, as a private citizen, he used to decry.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: calgov2002; catrans; knife; schwarzenegger

1 posted on 12/06/2003 1:07:16 PM PST by ambrose
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To: TheAngryClam
ping.
2 posted on 12/06/2003 1:07:32 PM PST by ambrose
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To: ambrose
Man that was a short honeymoon.
3 posted on 12/06/2003 1:09:32 PM PST by HitmanLV (I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.)
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To: ambrose
asking legislators on a few days notice to adopt a constitutional amendment that would have banned tax increases to solve next year’s problem and made higher tax rates all but impossible to enact forever more. There was simply no way the Democrats who control the Legislature were ever going to agree to such a provision

DING DING DING for Mr. Weintraub.

4 posted on 12/06/2003 1:10:18 PM PST by pogo101
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To: ambrose
He believed too much in the myth of his personal charisma.

In the movies, you can simply hire another team of scriptwriters if the script doesn't get you where you want to go. But Sacramento isn't Hollyweird.

Still, Arnold is not a quitter. We'll see whether he learns from this and overcomes his weakness or is bled to death by the Democrats in the California legislature.

5 posted on 12/06/2003 1:16:01 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: ambrose
Victory for conservatism bump.
6 posted on 12/06/2003 1:16:26 PM PST by TheAngryClam (Don't blame me, I voted for McClintock.)
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To: HitmanNY; ambrose; *calgov2002; NormsRevenge; SierraWasp; Carry_Okie; Grampa Dave; Sabertooth
I doubt that he was surprised!
7 posted on 12/06/2003 1:24:55 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: ambrose; snopercod
The real problem was that Schwarzenegger was asking the Democrats, as they head into a pivotal battle over the future of California government, to lay down their weapons and surrender. They weren’t going to do that Friday night. They won’t ever do it. His only choice now is to stop asking them to do it, or to go to the voters.

He can now go to the voters and ask if they want to send more money to Stinky-mento!!!

8 posted on 12/06/2003 1:29:09 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: ambrose
A short honeymoon indeed -- Arnold just got bitch-slapped by the state Senate 34-0. I guess that means some Republicans voted against his proposal also.

So where does that leave him? He needs to submit a budget by early January, I think, for FY2005. He has a $14 billion shortfall out of $50 billion in the general fund, and doesn't want to cut a number of programs, which limits him further.

The choices he has seem to be to cut spending by 28% (reduce payrolls, reduce expenditures like supplies and travel, cut back on hours, etc) or increase taxes. Of course, he pledged to not increase taxes so that is really not a feasible option at this point. But the pressure to raise taxes to save health, city/county, fire and police, parks and rec, libraries, higher education, welfare, workers comp, etc. programs will be tremendous.

The Democrats will probably propose to meet him halfway -- a 14% reduction in spending and a 14% increase in taxes. The Democrats will try to put any tax increase all on the upper brackets, and the "mean" Republicans will propose sales taxes and across the board income tax increases.

In the longer term, he should put his spending cap and reserve fund proposal up for the voters in November 2004.

It will be interesting!
9 posted on 12/06/2003 1:37:59 PM PST by RandyRep
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To: ambrose
Given his campaign promises for more funding for the schools, for higher education, more roads, more transit, more health care, Schwarzenegger doesn’t sound like a small-government Republican.

So what! PresBush doesn't sound like a small government Republican either. Bush gave us the largest education spending increases ever and he sign-off on a huge FarmBill give away. Bush also pressured anyone and everyone, to vote for passage of the largest single increase in federal spending in 38 years --- the new Medicare prescription drug boondoggle. These are not small government conservatives, by any stretch of the imagination.

10 posted on 12/06/2003 1:50:24 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: RandyRep
It will be interesting!

That is likely an understatement!

11 posted on 12/06/2003 1:55:45 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: Reagan Man
"These are not small government conservatives, by any stretch of the imagination"

Nope, it's all about getting votes. You left out the massive spending on rebuilding Islamic Iraq. All of this huge deficit spending is sending the dollar sinking against the Euro faster than our enemies could ever have dreamed.
12 posted on 12/06/2003 1:56:20 PM PST by optik_b
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To: optik_b
I'm a fiscal conservative but also strong on defense. The spending for the War on Terrorism and Homeland Security was legitimate. The $20 billion allocated for rebuilding Iraq, will pay for itself in the long run. Fighting the war over there, is preferable to fighting it over here. As the US economy recycles itself and business trends rebound, the dificit will decrease and the dollar will regain its strength in foreign overseas markets.
13 posted on 12/06/2003 2:12:40 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: ambrose
So we have two sides that are refusing to compromise with each other at all... our new GOP governor caught in the middle looking trapped and silly and already being savaged by the liberals because of the conservative cuts Arnold is forcing on them.

He's getting chopped at the knees by the left and the right... Is our conservative political strategy really "Death before improvement unless we can get 100% of what we want"?
14 posted on 12/06/2003 2:21:51 PM PST by Tamzee (Pennsylvanians for Bush! Join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA4BushCheney/)
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To: ambrose
A single battle does not determine the outcome of a war.
15 posted on 12/06/2003 2:29:17 PM PST by Uncle Hal
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To: optik_b; Reagan Man
Not conservative at all, in any legitimate sense of the word. Unfortunately, about the best we can get (i.e. none too good).

Regarding EUR/USD, I strongly suggest you do not fall into the trap the Euroweenies are setting for themselves. They still harbour the old quasi-macho ''strong currency'' attitudes left over from the days of the gold standard and Bretton Woods. These days, when all currencies are fiat only, the proper game is that of ''beggar thy neighbour'', not ''look how strong my currency is''. And they're about to pay an enormous price for this idiocy -- how does a semi-permanent recession sound?

That's what they're headed for if EUR/USD stays above $1.20...and that's the GOOD news, believe it or not. EUR/USD isn't just going to stay above $1.20 (with perhaps a dip here and there to $1.1450 or so), it's headed for $1.30 in fairly short order, conceivably even higher. The Bush administration won't say a word about it, indeed, they're encouraging a weakening dollar with almost all their policy decisions, and betting that capital flows won't dry up significantly before next November (pretty good bet, in my view).

USD was wildly overvalued throughout BJ's second term (which fact led to, among other things, the stock mkt bubble), and now it's coming around to more realistic levels. Enemies, it's our enemies weakening the dollar? Nope, not at all -- this is one of the best things that could happen to the U.S. economy (and, no, before you ask, I'm not an exporter).

Things should get even better for the U.S. as the dollar weakens vs. Euro. The idiots in Wonderland, esp. Trichet, are already muttering about -- are you ready for this? -- currency controls. PRAY for this to occur. Europe's last go at imbecilic currency controls was THE principal leveraging factor in the U.S.' favour in the trade boom after WW II and into the 1950s. This time, things will be MUCH sweeter for us, because capital (since 1973) has become quite accustomed to going where it damned well pleases whenever it damned well likes. If the Euroweenies think that they can reverse this attitude with some scheme of ''currency controls'', then they've overloaded their bong and have been hitting the MD 20-20 way too heavy.

Might as well enjoy the ride; suggest writing IMM Euro puts each month on ANY dip, use 350-400 pips below the mkt for the striking price. Should be eay money, duck soup until Greenbean starts raising the FF rate (figure the March FOMC meeting for that, btw, possibly the May meeting).

16 posted on 12/06/2003 2:36:52 PM PST by SAJ
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To: SAJ
eay ==> easy

Sorry for the typo.

17 posted on 12/06/2003 2:37:46 PM PST by SAJ
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To: Tamsey
>>>Is our conservative political strategy really "Death before improvement unless we can get 100% of what we want"?

More silly spin, from our resident centrist RINO. You know nothing about conservatism.

Btw, how are ya? =^)

18 posted on 12/06/2003 2:42:31 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: ambrose
Stuff happens.

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way through the Forum of Public Opinion

We elected a mortal after all.

November 2004 is the General / Recall Election of them All. That may truly be the Last Best Chance to restore the California.

19 posted on 12/06/2003 2:44:53 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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Yikes :-\

That may truly be the Last Best Chance to restore & save the California Republic.

20 posted on 12/06/2003 2:51:49 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: Reagan Man
Why does it always turn out that the Arnold haters are also the Bush haters, and they have the nerve to lecture to Republicans about what being Republican means.

::::Shaking head:::::
21 posted on 12/06/2003 2:53:20 PM PST by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
I have no idea what your talking about and its obvious neither do you. I support PresBush in the WoT, homeland security and find his tax cuts to be the right policy. I do not support increasing the size of the federal government to the tune of $400 billion. But it's understandable, we're on different sides of this issue. I'm a fiscal conservative and you are a centrist RINO, the ultimate political fencesitter.

>>>::::Shaking head:::::

I would say shaking your head must be difficult, considering where you have it stuck these days.

22 posted on 12/06/2003 3:10:03 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: FairOpinion
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1034849/posts
23 posted on 12/06/2003 3:16:42 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: FairOpinion
I hate Bush haters.
24 posted on 12/06/2003 3:17:09 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: ambrose
Oh, relax, everyone. The SacBee is trying to make Arnie look like a loser already, so don't fall for it.

Votes are always known and counted before anything comes to the floor. Arnie knew this would go down.

In the political big leagues, all moves are calculated and contingencies, alternatives and counter-moves are always at the ready. He's just laying some groundwork right now.

No one should go wobbly regarding the Terminator. In the end, he has the arsenal.

Leni

25 posted on 12/06/2003 3:27:09 PM PST by MinuteGal (Florida Freepers! Go to Fla. chapter forum for important announcements on chapter re-organization!)
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To: MinuteGal
The SacBee is trying to make Arnie look like a loser already, so don't fall for it.

Thank You. I get jumped all over on for posting stuff from time to time, believe it or not. The Sac Bee is the only game in town, can I or others help that.

If we had conservative rags we could use their articles but this is the lay of the land. Some folks would rather see the poster as the enemy and blow smoke to cover their own agendas.

We All need to work toward flushing the rats out in 2004, until that happens, we are just playing parlor games and making Arnie pay the piper in the mean time. I don't have anything against the Gub personally, he sounds like a fun guy and a good family man.

This may, however, be a job more in line for Tom Cruise tho' as he is used to performing in "Missions Impossible". ;-)

26 posted on 12/06/2003 3:36:49 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: Reagan Man
These are not small government conservatives, by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, but all that government spending should make the economy look good in the short run; And the bills will never come due.

27 posted on 12/06/2003 3:39:36 PM PST by templar
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To: templar
That economic policy is liberal Keynesianism and it advocates monetary and fiscal programs by government to increase employment and spending.

I support the conservative supply side policy, that believes tax cuts will stimulate earnings, investment and savings to get the economy to expand.

28 posted on 12/06/2003 3:55:28 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Stinky-mento

Please, the technical term is "Ex-cremento."

29 posted on 12/06/2003 4:13:26 PM PST by pogo101
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To: ambrose
Arnold is in trouble because he won't let go of "his" programs. Everybody in Sac has got a pet project and Schwarzenegger is no different.

There has been one plan and only one that has made sense from the beginning. No favorites, everybody loses eqally.

Cut the spending across the board. Every body involved takes a temporary pay cut. The cops, the firemen, the teachers, the retirees and the rest of the state employees. The ederly, the infirmed and the children. Less road building, less bridges, less parks and less school books.

For 18 months we all take the hit.

Do it now. Get it over with and get on with our collective lives in a more responsible fashion.

30 posted on 12/06/2003 4:17:06 PM PST by Amerigomag
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To: Reagan Man
More silly spin, from our resident centrist RINO.

You mistake me for a centrist when I am a pragmatist. I would PREFER that Arnold completely strip CA of socialism altogether, fire most government managers and all "feel-good" govt agencies, privitize any government service we can't eliminate, slam through a school voucher program that will kill off public schools, deport EVERY illegal alien immediately and build a 50-foot wall on the border (shoot on sight any humans attempting to cross), disqualify "anchor babies" from US citizenship, pass the death penalty for coyote smugglers, turn down EVERY parole, bring back chain-gangs for felons, eliminate almost all income tax and business regulation, wipe out the CA EPA and decimate the bulk of environmental protection laws, remove all gun control regulation except the criminal check, mandatory Norplant for anyone who has a child and applies for financial assistance, if they still need assistance after 2 months make the parent work for the local garbage authority at minimum wage until they find alternative employment on their own.... and that is just to start.

Doing just fine, thanks, just a tad snowed-in... how are you? ;-)

31 posted on 12/06/2003 5:15:55 PM PST by Tamzee (Pennsylvanians for Bush! Join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA4BushCheney/)
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To: ambrose
Arnold, to Legislature that "defeated" him:

I'll be back.

32 posted on 12/06/2003 5:18:41 PM PST by pogo101
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To: NormsRevenge; MinuteGal
This may, however, be a job more in line for Tom Cruise tho' as he is used to performing in "Missions Impossible". ;-)

ROFL!! GOOD Thoughts!

33 posted on 12/06/2003 9:23:59 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Davis is now out of Arnoold's Office , Bout Time!!!!)
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To: ambrose
I'm calling it a first hurdle for the time being.
34 posted on 12/06/2003 9:25:56 PM PST by Consort
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To: Tamsey
>>>You mistake me for a centrist when I am a pragmatist.

From my conservative point of view, you're a centrist. Call yourself whatever you like. But you're no pragmatist and no conservative either.

>>>I would PREFER that Arnold... and that is just to start.

LOL You can't have it both ways, so stop trying.

35 posted on 12/06/2003 10:15:57 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: ambrose
I would love to see a "true" conservative like Bush make even a token effort to reduce govt spending.

Ahnold now has to make his case with the people to get out of our current mess and make provisions to not let it happen again.

Bless him that he is so willing to risk getting egg on his face to take up such an impossible position on this financial mess.

Perhaps a some "true" national republicans will learn its ok to fight for your conservative beliefs.
36 posted on 12/06/2003 10:31:17 PM PST by Kay Soze (Liberal Homosexuals kill more people than Global Warming, SUVsí, Firearms & Terrorism combined.)
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To: Reagan Man
There's this guy, see, and he's driving this old clunker. He desperately wants a Ferrari, he DESERVES a Ferrari, he knows it is the absolute best car for his needs. Someone offers him an SUV but he turns it down, despising it for not meeting his standards. He pisses and moans about wanting a Ferrari, makes life pure hell for everyone around him when his clunker abandons him, even struggles financially because he can't keep a job without reliable transportation.

Then there's this OTHER clunker-driving guy, see, who also desperately wants a Ferrari. Someone offers him an SUV and he takes it gratefully, joyfully even... it's so much better than his clunker, life still isn't perfect but it's better than before, he can get to work regularly and save to someday TRADE UP.


1. It's poor logic to assume the second fella prefers SUV's because he is grateful to own one.

2. The second fella will get his Ferrari sooner than the geniusCA who sabotages his own opportunities to achieve it.

3. Maybe you could put the Ferrari on your list to Santy Claus.... California still doesn't have the votes to buy one for you.
37 posted on 12/07/2003 1:18:43 AM PST by Tamzee (Pennsylvanians for Bush! Join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA4BushCheney/)
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To: Tamsey
Not only a weak anology, but highly condescending. Par for the course. =^)

Like I said, call yourself whatever you like, just don't expect conservatives to view you for other then what you are. You're somewhere between wishy-washy moderate and centrist RINO. You're defintiely no principled, pragmatic conservative and your emotional support for the liberal RINO Arnold Schwarzenegger, has made that very clear. The idea that voting for Arnold the liberal, was the application of rational reasoning --- stopping Davis and Bustamonte from winning --- is actually, the height of irrational reasoning and has more to do with an emotional decision on your part, then anything else. During the recall campaign I tried to debate with you, strictly on the issues, but you obfuscated my attempts, cut off debate and ran for cover. LOL Nothing has changed. So be it.

38 posted on 12/07/2003 10:24:37 AM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: Reagan Man
Greetings from Reality!
 
wish you were here...

39 posted on 12/07/2003 12:40:19 PM PST by Tamzee (Pennsylvanians for Bush! Join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA4BushCheney/)
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To: Tamsey
YOU'RE LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD!

Some day you may wake up, but I doubt it. Hahahahahahaha

40 posted on 12/07/2003 12:58:13 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: Reagan Man
You obviously win.... that bigger-letter thing was a brilliant tactic ;-)
41 posted on 12/07/2003 2:13:35 PM PST by Tamzee (Pennsylvanians for Bush! Join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PA4BushCheney/)
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To: Tamsey
Don't feel so bad. I'm sure you were unaware, "7" is the limit on the size-font. Better luck next time.
42 posted on 12/07/2003 3:12:31 PM PST by Reagan Man (The few, the proud, the conservatives.)
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To: ambrose
If Arny does nothing he'll solve the budget crisis. The economy is growing, and tax receipts will, too. All this will be forgotten in a year or two, and they'll be amazed. Then they'll piss it away into the next recesssion.

Best case scenario is that Arny doesn't give on new revenue, and in a few years growth and no new stupid laws will pay for Grayout's orgy. The Guvenator will be a hero for having done the very best thing: nothing. (Oh, yeah, he'll pretend it otherwise.)

Nicollo unmasked: Bromleyisms here

43 posted on 12/07/2003 5:51:25 PM PST by nicollo
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