Taverns brace for smoking ban in different ways

Kennebuc Journal ^ | 12-15-03 | CHUIN-WEI YAP

[SheLion]

Smokers will face a new choice of bars in the new year ahead. While some bars will be entirely smoke-free, including many in the greater Augusta area, others have spent thousands of dollars to build covered annexes for their smoking clientele in preparation for Maine's ban on smoking in bars next year.

Maine legislators (AND THE RINO'S INCLUDED) passed the ban on smoking in bars and taverns in June, joining New York, California and Delaware in extending smoke-free environments to one of the last bastions of public indoor smoking. The ban takes effect Jan. 1, and experience in other states suggests the crowds will spill onto the sidewalks to light up.

Bravo's Mexican Restaurant in Augusta is one outlet that built a patio specially to accommodate smokers.

"We built it this (past) fall, so we can have people eat and smoke outside if they want to," said Brodie Tewkesbury, the outlet's manager. "So when (the smoking ban) comes into effect, we can have people smoke outside."

The concrete patio, which is uncovered, is behind the Bangor Street restaurant.

But by and large, bars in the Augusta area are not trying to soften the blow for smokers. Those include The Wharf and The Liberal Cup in Hallowell and Tilbury Town Tavern and the Depot Pub in Gardiner.

"We're sticking with the ban," one employee at The Liberal Cup said.

Bars farther north are beating the ban, however. At least three have completed or are erecting such smoking rooms. Their owners are motivated mainly by business motivation -- to keep their smoking patrons -- but some of them also are trying to dissuade smoking customers from illegally taking their drinks with them outside for cigarette breaks.

"We don't want people going out on the street to smoke, so we're building a deck for smokers to go out and smoke in," said Jibryne "Gubby" Karter, owner of Waterville's Bob-In Tavern.

"(Otherwise) we'll have the police coming round. We want to make sure (customers) are not trying to sneak out (to smoke) with beers. That makes more of a mess on the sidewalk."

Karter is building a 12-by-20 feet enclosure. The roofed space will be open on one side, according to directions laid down by the district attorney's office. The rest of the walls are wooden, with tinted glass windows and a space heater "to take the chill out."

In all, Karter said he will sink $5,000 to $10,000 into the project.

"We got the platform section built," Karter said. "It will all be under construction until the end of next week."

On Skowhegan's Main Street, the South Side Tavern is building a latticed enclosure for its smokers.

"I'd much rather have (smoking customers) in a controlled area like that," said owner Bart Hughes, a nonsmoker.

Like the other tavern owners, Hughes had to wade through a small sea of bureaucracy to get the annex up. That includes inspections by the Fire Department and the state's liquor licensing agents. The Waterville bars got approvals from the local code enforcement officers as well as the district attorney's office.

South Side's smoking patrons are pleased.

"I like it," said Eben Miller, 48. "Ninety percent of people who come in here smoke."

Other bar owners, including nonsmokers, are more strident in opposing the ban.

"The more comfortable I make it, the less it hurts me," said Fred Karter, the nonsmoking owner of Waterville's Chez bar. "I want to show my customers I appreciate them. It's pretty unfair. They let private clubs do it (allow indoor smoking). I've never smoked in my life, but I don't consider smokers criminals. We think we have to regulate everything."

Fred Karter is building an 11-by-20-foot latticed annex shielded with glass panels. He is spending more than $4,000 on construction materials and building much of it himself. He estimates that 98 percent of his customers smoke.

But for the annex builders, it is a matter of doing business.

"It's an intangible -- 75 percent of my people drink and smoke, and a lot of people tell me they only smoke in bars," said Bob-In's Gubby Karter. "How much will (the new ban) affect us? Initially about 10 percent. I'm hoping it's not worse than that. We're doing everything we can to accommodate (the smokers). We don't want 20 people outside with their butts on the ground and everything."

Chuin-Wei Yap - 8619253

ychuin@centralmaine.com

[SheLion]

This might work in SOUTHERN MAINE, but in NORTHERN MAINE decks just won't cut it. We had 30 inches of snow yesterday with 30 mph winds and sub zero temps. Decks outside? This is rediculous!

They always say there is "two Maines......." well, this just goes to prove it!

Outside smoking decks my arze!

[SheLion]

[metesky]

It's only gonna get wierder from here on in. Rose and I won't go out anymore.

[billorites]

Ah, the Chez in Waterville!

I knee-walked home from their a few times.

[SheLion]

It's only gonna get wierder from here on in. Rose and I won't go out anymore.

Come 1 January, me either. If they think for one minute that I will go out to eat, spend MY money and sit there without enjoying a relaxing smoke, they can ALL kiss my azz!

Stubborn? You bet I am! I refuse to stand outside to smoke for ANYONE! If I can't smoke at a restaurant or bar/tavern, I won't GO!

What's that saying? "HELL NO I WON'T GO!" heh!

And our RINO Lawmakers in Augusta just couldn't fight for us, could they? Oh! Of COURSE not! They are all warm and cozy in their little "private smoking rooms!"

b a r f!

[Gabz]

I don't think the decks will work in Southern Maine either.

Consdering they do't work in Delaware because it gets dang cold and that's how many 100s of miles south of Maine.

[verity]

And the 'skeeters will get you in the summer.

[roxxon]

Nope!
B.C.'s weather in the winter is much milder than anywhere around the east coast of Canada or the United States.
The decks are not cutting it here either.

Funny:
Most municipalities under the so-called WCB. B.C. provincial smoking ban...
(There are 8 that police and enforce there own harsher smoking bylaws here, some like Victoria do not allow smoking rooms(DSRs)and most like Vancouver city allow tiny smoking rooms, not the size of the provincial standard.)

The problem is many of the business owners here have not constructed good-sized, ventilated DSRs.
Some have and are doing a booming business.
Others went smoke-free, in an attempt to save money.
Most of those places have now applied to build DSRs or smoking patios.

Here is the kicker:
The WCB would rather see you build an indoor smoking room with good ventilation than convert or construct a new or old smoking patio as a semi-indoor-outdoor smoking area.
They will not allow such a patio-smoking area to have four walls unless...
There is an expensive reverse-ventilation system installed as well.
So you might as well build a smoking room.
Over 400 businesses have applied to build new smoking rooms in the province within the last 6 months.

Some rooms here are terrific others, even hardcore smokers wouldn't enter.The ventilation is so poor.
Vancouver's legal smoking rooms:
None of them would pass the WCB provincial code that I have been in.
There total size can be no more than 14 sq. ft. by 14 sq. ft.

Back to the topic of smoking decks...
Over 20 places I know of who have good smoking decks, that are mostly enclosed(4 walls)and heated have come under WCB inspector fire.

One pub advertised itself as smoke-free during the WCB smoking ban in 2000.
They lost so much money that they built a smoking deck almost the size of the entire bar in front at it's entrance.
It was surrounded in plexiglass with nice wood-trim all around.
The WCB o.k.ed the patio after the ban was tossed out in court...
Now they have told the owners the patio is to big and too enclosed.The WCB have said either take down the front wall or the two side walls of the deck and make it 15% smaller or face large fines.

The owner's only real option now is to spend even more money, the original deck cost over 40k...is to install an expensive reverse-ventilation system and seal off all four walls.

The outdoor smoking deck, thing gets old really fast with some smokers.
Usually young people or older people trying to quit accept indoor smoking prohibition better than the rest of the smoking public.
I know a number of smokers who originally welcomed the smoking ban here, as a means to help them quit have had a huge change of heart.
Many of them rarely go out or stay as long as they used to before smoking was banned.
Even with heated decks.

When the weather is shitty or nice many bar-night-club customers, just stay home and drink at house parties.
Complacent business owners and politically correct, anti-smoking politicians just don't get it.

The tourism industry is continually suffering in Vancouver, Victoria and the other 6 municipalities that have their own tougher bans than the provincial standard.
Yet these fuckers won't back down into accepting the B.C. WCB provincial standard that allows for:

All restaurants and bars to have smoking rooms up to 45% of the business's total area as DSR.

In gambling venues or bingos up to 65% of the area can be DSR.

We won a huge victory of sorts in B.C.
In the year 2000 most municipalities had complete 100% smoking bans.
With no exemptions or DSRs allowed.
Now restaurant smoking via DSR has made a return in many B.C. locales.

Of course the anti-smoking groups are trying to get the DSRs removed.
This government will not do it.
They realize the implications and the negative impacts this would have and have had on tourism here.

Their original plan was to have all the municipalities minus Victoria accept the provincial standards.
Many of these municipalities did just that.
Others like Vancouver city and Victoria have spend hundreds of thousands of dollars foolishly, policing their own
Nazi-smoking bylaws.

I truly believe in Maine future winters will be bitter for most bar and nightclubs.
Even with smoking patios.
Spring-Summer seasons will become their bread and butter.
If they hope to survive, especially the "little guys."

This is not going to be accepted in the way the antis, politicians and some complacent business owners believe.

It's not much fun going to an empty bar or club, paying premium prices for drinks and being forced outside in shitty weather or onto a crummy smoking patio to smoke.
People will stay home save money and go out less often.
The "hordes" of non-smoking customers will never appear.

Maine or B.C. is not silly, California.

In B.C. you can drink and get food service on patios, on decks and in DSRs.

I loved that article about the uncovered deck in Maine.
That's going attract hordes of smokers in the pissing rain, cold and snow.
Sure it will.

I can see many of these business owners having a serious change of heart over a short period of time.
They did it here too and we have much better overall weather conditions in British Columbia, Canada.

[Cboldt]

I don't think the decks will work in Southern Maine either. Consdering they do't work in Delaware because it gets dang cold ...

I concur with that assessment. It was cold and windy here yesterday, and most people (probably all) would have been darn uncomfortable outdoors after less than half a minute -- unless well bundled up. I know I was uncomfortable just unoading groceries w/o gloves.

Granted, Northern Maine is --much-- more severe, weatherwise, but outdoor decks won't be any help to limit reduction in business due to restricting smoking to the outdoors.

[SheLion]

Granted, Northern Maine is --much-- more severe, weatherwise, but outdoor decks won't be any help to limit reduction in business due to restricting smoking to the outdoors.

It all boils down to this:

[Gabz]

This is not going to be accepted in the way the antis, politicians and some complacent business owners believe.

You've got that right.

[SheLion]

By-The-Way:

[Conspiracy Guy]

Ping to exploited kittie.

[steve50]

Cute cat SheLion. Reminds me I need a replacement feline.

[CSM]

I took in a stray a couple of months ago and I am more than willing to pass it on to you. I am finding out I am just not a "cat person".

[Judith Anne]

Freakin' Regulators! Vote the bums out!

[Gabz]

If only it were so easy.

[SheLion]

Cute cat SheLion. Reminds me I need a replacement feline.

I'm open for adoption! heh!

[SheLion]

Freakin' Regulators! Vote the bums out!

I'd love to do to our lawmakers what they did to Davis in California!

[OPS4]

smokeless tobacco will rise!Half smoked cigars will get chewed, people will wear the patch after they eat, and the rest of the non smokers will not have to share.

Always a way to get your nicotine.

Ops4 God BLess America!

[SheLion]

Smoking Deck in Northern Maine today:

Oh yes........let's all go and smoke outside!

[SheLion]

smokeless tobacco will rise!Half smoked cigars will get chewed, people will wear the patch after they eat, and the rest of the non smokers will not have to share.

I smoke! Period! I don't smoke cigars.......I don't smoke pot...........I WON'T wear the PATCH..........I just smoke CIGARETTES which are STILL a legal product!

But THINK OF THE MONEY I WILL SAVE by not going out to eat in a SMOKELESS restaurant/bar/tavern. HEH!

[Gabz]

They look so comfy, cozy and inviting........



NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OPS4]

Well, think of the money you would save if you quit smoking, and how much healthier you would be.

Ops4 God BLess America!

[CSM]

Think of all the money you could save and how much healthier you would be if you LIVED IN A BUBBLE!

[SheLion]

They look so comfy, cozy and inviting........

Gabz! That's what we got hit with yesterday! Can you ever imagine going out to smoke in THAT??????!!!!!!!!

[SheLion]

Well, think of the money you would save if you quit smoking, and how much healthier you would be.

Did you know that obesity is the number one killer in America today? Guess what! I am not fat OR obese! At least I am not EATING myself to death!

[SheLion]

Well, think of the money you would save if you quit smoking, and how much healthier you would be.

I don't care to end up looking like THIS, either!

[The Mayor]

This same B S is happening in Buffalo. We have lousy weather too..

A few years ago bars and restaurants built seperate rooms with their own ventalition for smokers.
This year that wasn't good enough and there is no smoking at all allowed.

I see your statistics, 90%, 75, 98% of patrons smoke. Here in Buffalo is about the same.
It was one thing to have to smoke outside in the summer, now it's a little ridiclous.
Yesterday it was 23, today 29, it's only the beginning of a long Buffalo winter.
Wait till there is days of lake effect snow with temps in the teens and blowing snow.

These poor business owners are going to close their doors permantly, they already started.
Then of course we have loss of jobs and revenue from the sales taxes.

ALL these politically correct politicans have got to go!
they all talk about helping small business on one hand,
but do all they can to kill it on the other.
They can't have it both ways, they all s**k.

I'm hoping to be able to raise enough to run for the NY State Assembly this year.

[OPS4]

Bubbles dont form cancers!

Ops4 God Bless America!

[Gabz]

When we got hit with that kind of snow last year I didn't have to worry about it - the Gvoernor had basically shut the state down for the 1st 2 day and I was still snowed into my driveway on the 3rd day........

Not that I would have put up with having to go out to smoke if I had ventured out. I may not live there now, but I still know exactly where in lower Delaware I can have a cigarette with my beer when I go to visit!!!!

[OPS4]

Wow what a great argument, thats like saying I am 1/2 pregnant, or the glass is half full.

Please just go ahead and smoke, its your health, but I am glad your second hand smoke has been removed from my breathing space.

Ops4 God BLess America!

[OPS4]

So why does that becom the alternative to smoking?
Where is your common sense?

Ops4 God BLess America!

[E Rocc]

Outside smoking decks my arze!

Even if they were workable weatherwise, they are big bucks. Not only the deck itself, but you need to either give up an entrance or build another door in the building.

-Eric

[Gabz]

Good luck in making a run for the Assembly. We need more right thinking people in all the state houses!!!!

[CSM]

"Bubbles dont form cancers!"

Ah, but they could protect the sheep from every suspected cause of cancers!

Since you seem to know the cause of cancers, when can I expect you to publish the cure?

[Gabz]

but I am glad your second hand smoke has been removed from my breathing space.

In actuality it is not.......you have been invited by the owner of a private property to enter IF YOU CHOOSE to partake of his services.

[steve50]

I'm open for adoption! heh!

I hear you bite and scratch the furniture tho. How do you feel about being de-clawed?

[SheLion]

ALL these politically correct politicans have got to go! they all talk about helping small business on one hand, but do all they can to kill it on the other. They can't have it both ways, they all s**k.
I'm hoping to be able to raise enough to run for the NY State Assembly this year.

Yes, but you don't see them trying to BAN cigarettes, DO we? They just want our tax dollars and be able to CONTROL US. I'm SICK of it and I am SICK OF THEM!

Good luck with running for State Assembly! Become of boil on their azzes! heheh!

[SheLion]

Please just go ahead and smoke, its your health, but I am glad your second hand smoke has been removed from my breathing space.

Oh Honey! Listen! I would NEVER want to be around YOU to smoke ANYWAY! Your not my kind of friend!!!!

[SheLion]

So why does that becom the alternative to smoking?

I believe it's spelled "become." How old ARE you anyway!

[SheLion]

So why does that becom the alternative to smoking?

Isn't it wonderful that Free Republic made the BLOCK POSTER so we don't have to read hateful postings anymore?! hehe

CYA!!!!!!!!

[SheLion]

Good luck in making a run for the Assembly. We need more right thinking people in all the state houses!!!!

If anything, he can become a BIG BOIL ON THEIR BUTTS. LOL

[The Mayor]

Become of boil on their azzes! heheh!

I already am and hopefully I will become a big one.

I am relentless with the politicans, some of them see me and quickly walk away in hopes I didn't see them.
A few years ago I threw a pocket Constitution at my assemblyman and told him to read it.

[SheLion]

I am relentless with the politicans, some of them see me and quickly walk away in hopes I didn't see them. A few years ago I threw a pocket Constitution at my assemblyman and told him to read it.

Good for YOU! ^5 = High Five!!!!

[zygoat]

"I'd much rather have (smoking customers) in a controlled area like that," said owner Bart Hughes, a nonsmoker."

This is what they are trying to implement. A "CONTROLLED" enviroment for anyone who dares to infringe upon their state given rights.

[OPS4]

Old enough to know when someone is btrying to avoid the question by being juvenile in turn by trying to create a spelling contest, and avoiding the question.

Ops4 God Bless America
Feminazi leanings are showing.

[OPS4]

SO answer the question??????????????????????
Why does overeating becom the alternative to smoking,
seems to me that an obsessive behavior problem appears!

Ops4 God BLess America!

[CSM]

"Why does overeating becom the alternative to smoking,
seems to me that an obsessive behavior problem appears!"

Because the current trend in the media is to demonize "big food" to open the doors to legislation monitoring diets and personal exercise habits. How nice it will be when we go to our favorite restaurants and get to order soylent green. The same path is being taken with regards to food as was done with tobacco, the same players too.

[Great Dane]

LOL, but it is a beautiful picture.