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Bird deaths causing concern about true value of wind farm
Houston Chronicle ^ | 12-21-2003 | Rone Tempest

Posted on 12/21/2003 8:50:53 AM PST by buffyt

When the giant Altamont wind farm sprouted here two decades ago, the only major objections were aesthetic. Local residents didn't appreciate the forest of 7,000 ungainly wind towers cluttering their view.

No one, apparently, thought about the birds.

Since the phalanx of giant windmills began churning the air above the Altamont Pass east of San Francisco Bay, an estimated 22,000 birds have died, including hundreds of golden eagles, red-tailed hawks, kestrels and other raptors, after flying into the spinning blades of the wind turbines.

Now, some environmental groups that routinely supported wind power as a clean, alternative source of electric power are opposing the renewal of permits for the wind farm, the largest in the world in number of turbines, until steps are taken to reduce the bird deaths.

"Renewing these permits without addressing the cumulative impacts of wind energy on migratory birds, especially raptor species, will give a black eye to wind power," said Michael Boyd, president of Californians for Renewable Energy, a Santa Cruz-based organization that generally supports alternative energy sources such as wind power. Joining in the effort is the Center for Biological Diversity, a national nonprofit group known for its litigious approach to wildlife protection.

The two organizations have asked the Alameda County Board of Supervisors to reverse a recent decision by a local zoning board granting permit renewals to some of the wind power operators. Quoting from recent research for the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and the California Energy Commission, they estimate that over the past 20 years, 22,000 birds have died in the Altamont windmills.

"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Paul Kerlinger.


(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: birds; blackouts; california; deaths; electricity; emvironment; energy; power; windfarms; windpower
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"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Kerlinger."

Is there some kind of STUPID PERSON award we can give to this person???????????????????????

1 posted on 12/21/2003 8:50:54 AM PST by buffyt
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To: buffyt
No one, apparently, thought about the birds.

-----------------------

I went to a conference of electricity generation between 25 and 30 years ago. It was stated then that windmill were an environmental hazard because they chopped up birds.

2 posted on 12/21/2003 8:56:48 AM PST by RLK
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To: buffyt
he mustve had the lights turned "on" alot when he was young....killed his brain cells
3 posted on 12/21/2003 8:57:35 AM PST by 1john2 3and4 ( at ONE with my duality)
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To: buffyt
I just turned on all my lites and now im runing my table saw

4 posted on 12/21/2003 8:57:55 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: buffyt
something has to be done, after all it's "for the birds"!
5 posted on 12/21/2003 8:59:15 AM PST by Professional Engineer (pssst Hey Kid, wanna be a Rocket Scientist?)
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To: al baby
Stop! Stop! YOU'RE KILLING MEEEEEE!!!
6 posted on 12/21/2003 9:01:36 AM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: buffyt
"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Paul Kerlinger.

Ok, let's all feel guilty about getting out of bed in the morning. We are all monsters who kill every time we move our monstrous carcasses.

Btw, can't they build screens around the windmills or something? I've no love for wind energy, but I have been sick of expensive energy investments that get wiped out ever since Shoreham.

7 posted on 12/21/2003 9:04:00 AM PST by KellyAdmirer
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To: buffyt
Environmentalists can go live in caves if they want to support nature. The rest of us will live and prosper, using our God given brains.
8 posted on 12/21/2003 9:07:37 AM PST by o_zarkman44
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To: al baby
Damn birds! I was innocently crusing along I-40 going west and a damn bird flew right into the spokes n my Harley's front wheel! Beny a couple of spokes and made a bit of a mess of my gas tank and chromed lowers....and I feel really guilty!

I guess Harley-Davidsons are a huge contributor to this bird KIA thing too?

The inhumanity of it all!
9 posted on 12/21/2003 9:08:15 AM PST by NMFXSTC
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To: buffyt
"The cost of wind power, about 10 cents per kWh, is one of the highest for any kind of present-day electricity generation (cf. 4 cents per kWh for high-cost nuclear)."
-- oism.org

Without a government subsidy, wind farms would lose money.

10 posted on 12/21/2003 9:10:54 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Professional Engineer
The new World Trade Center tower will be equipped with pigeon slicers.
11 posted on 12/21/2003 9:11:03 AM PST by Reeses
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To: buffyt
Are there any birds in the Netherlands?
12 posted on 12/21/2003 9:11:54 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: RLK
As per usual, these people think you can get something for nothing. The killing of birds is obvious, however, there is no way to put up wind turbines and not have some kind of subtle environmental impact. Removing energy from prevailing winds always has some kind of environmental impact on the ecosystem behind the wind turbines.
13 posted on 12/21/2003 9:11:57 AM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count)
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Paul Kerlinger.

So when you turn on the lights, you are turning the fans up to "liquify?"

Just damn.

If you want on the new list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

14 posted on 12/21/2003 9:13:14 AM PST by mhking (It's in your home state...it's outside your front door...and it's going to eat YOU up!)
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To: KellyAdmirer
"Btw, can't they build screens around the windmills or something? I've no love for wind energy, but I have been sick of expensive energy investments that get wiped out ever since Shoreham."

No--any screening would decrease the air velocity, and thus the efficiency of generation. Wind energy is STRONGLY dependent on wind speed--as I recall extractable energy is something like the velocity to the fourth power--so even a tiny decrease in wind velocity drops efficiency significantly.

Nuclear (fission) energy is basically cheap. The reason it is so expensive today is 1) delaying tactics (lawsuits about almost everything) lengthening building times and increasing the interest cost of borrowing the money, and 2) un-necessary regulations of all sorts. Both of the above promulgated by the "watermelon" (i.e Green---green on the outside, red on the inside) exco-fanatics.

15 posted on 12/21/2003 9:14:04 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: chiller
"Save the planet. Kill yourself."
16 posted on 12/21/2003 9:15:58 AM PST by 07055
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To: Reeses
The Bird-O-Matic: It slices, It dices...
17 posted on 12/21/2003 9:16:27 AM PST by Professional Engineer (pssst Hey Kid, wanna be a Rocket Scientist?)
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To: robertpaulsen
Thanks for the link.


18 posted on 12/21/2003 9:18:31 AM PST by gitmo (Who is John Galt?)
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To: buffyt
And I suppose stringing up some nets so the birds won't get sucked into the turbines isn't an option? Too intelligent a solution for the enviromarxists?
19 posted on 12/21/2003 9:18:46 AM PST by thoughtomator (The Federal judiciary is a terrorist organization)
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To: buffyt
"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Paul Kerlinger

Pass the candles.
20 posted on 12/21/2003 9:19:22 AM PST by nuconvert
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To: buffyt
Well, the disclosure of the bird deaths from the windmills simply allows the enviro-whackos to return to their original position, "Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody, Stupid" or BANANAS. The efforts of mankind to modify the face of the planet to make the existence of humanity a little more comfortable are only at the expense of the poor, the ignorant, and the defenseless, which pretty well sums up the whackos' opinion of nonhuman life forms.

A wealthy society, created as a result of the ingenuity and innovation of its members, has the necessary means to adequately fund the preservation of those species endangered by progress. Many of those species that were thought to be possibly affected, have in fact prospered and grown abundant with the spread of cultivation and development of land. Others have been adversely affected, but in ways not anticipated, as in forest fires vastly more devastating in "protected" tree stands, than the mere harvest of trees could cause. In really hot and fast fires, far greater numbers of creatures are destroyed along with the habitat than smaller and self-extinguishing fires would cause.
21 posted on 12/21/2003 9:19:25 AM PST by alloysteel
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To: Mike Darancette
Are there any birds in the Netherlands?

I think a better question is: "If the windmills on the wind farms moved as slo-o-o-o-w as the dutch windmills, how many birds would be saved"?

22 posted on 12/21/2003 9:20:20 AM PST by scouse
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To: buffyt
Birds fly into things. This is something that every homeowner knows. So who was the genius who came up with the idea of sticking a few thousand Cuisnart's for them to run in to?

This is one of the reasons I am against so called "green energy" It does a lot more harm then good.

23 posted on 12/21/2003 9:21:02 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Prancer II: Pass the Mashed Potatoes and Gravy. - Delicious! A Holiday Movie for the whole family!)
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To: scouse
Why are the Dutch windmills considered picturesque and the US windmills an eyesore?
24 posted on 12/21/2003 9:24:14 AM PST by gitmo (Who is John Galt?)
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To: buffyt
I've always thought that wind power was for the birds!
25 posted on 12/21/2003 9:25:11 AM PST by reg45
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To: buffyt
This is nothing compared to the amount of bugs killed by the windshield and grill of my car.
26 posted on 12/21/2003 9:26:13 AM PST by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: buffyt
"Is there some kind of STUPID PERSON award we can give to this person??????????????????????? "

yes.
two come to mind:
give him "the bird"
or
"the flying fickle finger of fate" award

28 posted on 12/21/2003 9:28:21 AM PST by hoot2
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To: aomagrat
This is nothing compared to the amount of bugs killed by the windshield and grill of my car.

I just killed all the ants in my shower im in big do do now

also cant we make safer bullets
29 posted on 12/21/2003 9:29:40 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: All
Wouldn't the acceptable comprimise to everyone's issues be to simply create some type of machine that would squeeze the guts through cheesecloth so the feathers could be re-used?

This sounds like a great elementary school science fair project!
30 posted on 12/21/2003 9:32:47 AM PST by baltodog (When you're hanging from a hook, you gotta' get a bigger boat, or something like that.)
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To: al baby
Bird flu suspected nationwide
31 posted on 12/21/2003 9:33:11 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: buffyt
Solution: Attach a dedicated environmentalist to each of the blades and they can wave off the incoming birds.
32 posted on 12/21/2003 9:36:05 AM PST by verity
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To: gitmo
"But even environmentalists are turning against wind power because of the ``avian mortality'' problem"

so now the kennedys n their hineys-port neighbors are "environmentalists"???
or...
they don't want that "eyesore" in their backyard

33 posted on 12/21/2003 9:39:04 AM PST by hoot2
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To: Mike Darancette
"Are there any birds in the Netherlands? "

yes; bats.
they only fly @night, when the lights are out

34 posted on 12/21/2003 9:40:39 AM PST by hoot2
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To: scouse
"If the windmills on the wind farms moved as slo-o-o-o-w as the dutch windmills, how many birds would be saved"?

If the windmills on wind farms moved as slo-o-o-o-w as Dutch windmills they would have to be hugh to generate as much power. Energy is directly proportional to the mass and to the square of the velocity.

35 posted on 12/21/2003 9:43:26 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Proud member - Neoconservative Power Vortex)
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To: buffyt
Horror of horrors, birds are killed by age, weather, airplanes, disease, accidents, power lines, guns, cars, people, and a thousand other things. Life, is filled with the ever potential, and sure death. It has been so since Adam's transgression brought death into the world. Get a life you animal and bird activists, and be grateful it isn't you being sucked into the maelstrom. Much more of this crap and you never know?
36 posted on 12/21/2003 9:44:06 AM PST by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
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To: gitmo
Why are the Dutch windmills considered picturesque and the US windmills an eyesore?

As soon as Barbara Streisand pays a couple of hundred thou" for an oil painting of a US windmill, they will become picturesque.

37 posted on 12/21/2003 9:45:37 AM PST by scouse
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: nuconvert
"Pass the candles."

As long as the candles are not made from the rendered fat tissue of our poor exploited animal friends. The candles must be made from paraffin, oops, paraffin is bad bad bad. It is made from oil. Well let's use processed vegetable oil, oops again, to get vegetable oil, virgin prairie must be tilled, and we cannot have that. Guess we'll just have to sit in the dark.

39 posted on 12/21/2003 9:47:34 AM PST by DeepDish (Let your keyboard do the walking)
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To: NMFXSTC
What no sense of humor come on
40 posted on 12/21/2003 9:48:33 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: 07055
"Save the planet. Kill yourself."

That's the motto of those hate-yourself, hate-America, hate-God loonies in a nutshell, ain't it?!? To them I say:

"Save the humans. Kill yourself."

41 posted on 12/21/2003 9:51:25 AM PST by Mackey (Borders, Language, Culture! To hell with political correctness-- I am an American, this is my land!)
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To: verity
Perhaps a federal program could be started in which birds are cross-bred with bats to produce a bird that has radar and can avoid the blades. Or we could station an environmentalist at the base of each windmill with a stick to ward off the birds.
42 posted on 12/21/2003 9:54:36 AM PST by henderson field
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To: robertpaulsen
I drove through Tehachapi Pass on a windy day three weeks ago. 90% of the thousands of wind generators there were not turning at all. I assume they were broken.
43 posted on 12/21/2003 9:57:24 AM PST by snopercod (Come beloved and fill the bowl that clears today of past regrets and future fears...)
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To: buffyt
"When you turn on your lights you kill something, no matter what the source of electricity," said Paul Kerlinger

And the more immigrants we import, the more people there will be turning on lights, and more dead birds we'll have.

Save the birds. End immigration. We are out of room and resources.

44 posted on 12/21/2003 9:59:37 AM PST by Age of Reason
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To: KellyAdmirer
Ok, let's all feel guilty about getting out of bed in the morning. We are all monsters who kill every time we move our monstrous carcasses.

Yes, the only solution to this crisis is to get rid of human beings. I propose we all commit suicide ASAP, starting with the Greenies of course, since they're the most concerned about the problem. When they've all offed themselves I'll do the same...I promise I will...don't you believe me?

45 posted on 12/21/2003 10:00:53 AM PST by Bernard Marx ("Do what you are afraid to do." Anonymous.)
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To: Reeses
Not once this news gets out. Change the plans !
46 posted on 12/21/2003 10:03:04 AM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: Reeses
pigeon slicers

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm warming to this idea...for my back yard.

47 posted on 12/21/2003 10:06:02 AM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: buffyt
...over the past 20 years, 22,000 birds have died in the Altamont windmills.

7000 windmills x 20 years = 140,000 windmill years. Divide 22,000 bird deaths by 140,000 and we get .16 birds/windmill/year. Hard to see where there's a lot of room for improvement.

48 posted on 12/21/2003 10:06:41 AM PST by Grut
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To: snopercod
drove through Tehachapi Pass on a windy day three weeks ago. 90% of the thousands of wind generators there were not turning at all. I assume they were broken.

They were showing solidarty with the grocery store unions and went out on strike
49 posted on 12/21/2003 10:07:08 AM PST by al baby (Ice cream does not have bones)
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To: al baby
I did not think it was possible to make an ugly place uglier until I saw the wind turbines in the Tehachipi area.
50 posted on 12/21/2003 10:17:18 AM PST by stylin_geek (Koffi: 0, G.W. Bush: (I lost count)
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