Kids thrive on discipline

Tucson Arizona Star ^ | 01/03/04 | Betsy Hart

[dhs12345]

I was brought up in a family that spanked.

However, I haven't spanked my son once; haven't needed to. And he rarely spends time in "time out."

Some important points:

1. I am still the disciplinarian. And I say "no" a lot. To date, my son has never questioned me.

2. My wife and I "conspire" against our son. We never allow him to divide us.

3. I tell my son and show my son that I love him. Love and affection along with punishment (non-violent) are very effective methods of discipline. Many people forget that showing affection can be a very powerful form of positive reinforcement.

4. I pick my fights. I don't rant and rave about silly things. And I always try to do things that make sense.

5. My son gets a lot of one on one time.

Disclaimer: we only have one child and my son is still very young (almost seven years). Some say that you are not a parent until you have more than one child.

However, so far it is going pretty well (crossing my fingers).

[Siamese Princess]

I have just spent seven days with two very badly behaved grandchildren , age 3 1/2 and 5 1/2. It was not very pleasant. They shrieked, spilled, spat, hit, threw objects, disobeyed, sat at the dinner table loudly proclaiming "I hate all that stuff"; and after opening their Christmas gifts stated boldly, "Is that all there is?"

No doubt about it, your grandchildren are liberals-in-the-making. After all, what is liberalism but the outlook on life of a spoiled, self-centered brat who thinks that the world exists to make him happy?

[luckystarmom]

I spanked one of my daughters twice, and it didn't work.

My son never needed to be spanked. You'd take away his action figures and he never misbehaved again. He's 9 now, and we're starting to get that adolescence attitude. We haven't decided how to handle it.

Then I have twins girls. One of them has special needs. She has brain damage and as a result she has had a terrible time with speech. She's 7 and still talks worse than most 3 year olds. The twins have been a challenge.

The one with brain damage is the one that I spanked. She use to get out of her carseat all the time. I tried everything to get her to stop including spanking her. Spanking made her scream and holler more. I finally just would pull over and wait for her to calm down, and then force her in her seat. It took years for her to stop.

She also had bad tantrums, especially when she was tired. I would try to run errands early, but she threw me some loops. One day we were picking up some lunch to go and she had a meltdown about wanting soda. I told her that she wasn't getting any, and she screamed and hollered so loudly. She was 4 or 5, and big and strong. I couldn't pick her up. I basically dragged her out of the store kicking and screaming. I had to lie her down and straddle her outside. She screamed for 30 minutes. Finally, I got her in the car. I was so embarrassed. I had people calling her a brat.

My other daughter has also had tantrums but not as bad as her sister.

The thing is after years of bad behavior, they are finally doing fairly well. I'm getting compliments about their good behavior. All 3 of them have never gotten into trouble at school. We were on a traveling after Christmas, and the plane was delayed an hour, then we had a 3 hour flight, an hour layover, and another hour flight home. All 3 of the kids were perfect. The other passengers commented about how nice my kids were.

They can still be a pain at home, and we haven't hit the teenage years. It also seems like if I'm calm about things they are better. Today, they missed the bus because they were slow. I was calm and just told them "Well, we're all going to bed 15 minutes earlier and getting up 15 minutes earlier. If you miss the bus again, then we'll go to bed earlier the next night." They just all said okay.

Kids (and parents) are very interesting. I'm pretty understanding when I see a misbehaving kid, especially if it is at a grocery store. I figure the mom probably doesn't want to take the kid, and the kid doesn't want to be there. I have a hard time with parents at a park ignoring bad behavior of their kids. I've seen some parents just let their kids throw sand or hit other kids.

[Siamese Princess]

One thing that is overlooked in this thread is the effect of family breakup on children. Many children are happy and well-behaved until their parents divorce -- after that, the son may act out and the daughter may become depressed. Children from families that never formed in the first place tend to be even worse behaved. Stepfamilies tend to have their own strains, as well. Finally, there are problems associated with kids being unsupervised. So it's not all just overly-permissive parents.

[luckystarmom]

I do it too. I don't think the rest of the family should put up with a tantruming child. Most of the time my daughter either falls asleep or calms herself down by reading a book. The other kids are not allowed to bug her in her room, and the other kids just make the situation worse.

[fatima]

Posted by Woahhs to netmilsmom
On News/Activism 01/04/2004 7:45:57 PM EST #85 of 144

My wife tells me my last paragraph in my last response was quite over the top. I hope you will accept my sincerest apologies for such flagrant and abrasive speculation.
You may well get the last laugh as we are planning on children starting this year, but we've had 17 years to plan and prepare for expanding our family, as well as exorcise the demons of our own childhoods. And while you may have intended sarcasm with your final sentence, my best friend of twenty years with three children of his own (eldest to graduate college this spring) has told me the exact same thing.


Really.

[fatima]

How are children on your priority list..

[Paul C. Jesup]

You know by the topic of this thread, that was NOT the type of zero tolerance I was talking about. So stop being a jerk and just answer my question.

[luckystarmom]

No one can really plan for children. I wanted three, and God gave us twins on the second pregnancy. I got 3.

I wanted normal, healthy kids, and I got twins that almost died and one that has brain damage.

It's an interesting roller coaster. Your kids will be different from you, so you can't really prepare. Each one handles things differently.

Having kids teaches you to be flexible.

[fatima]

Woahhs,You are soo boring.

[fatima]

Kids need to learn what fear is in order to behave. Worked for my folks ,'Good let them come now and beat the bad out of you.,Thanks Mom and Dad'.Touch the kids creep.

[fatima]

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[Woahhs]

Yes, I'm sure holding your attention without the use of shiny objects is very difficult.

[netmilsmom]

>>but, you ended it with what I definitely disagree with:

"Society will dictate their behavior. If they act that way in school, something will change" <<

But Bob, it's true.
Think about it this way...

Our FRiend Palladin has only so much control being a Grandparent. If he goes whole hog, and tells his daughter that she needs an adjustment in parenting, there is a good chance that she will tell him where to put it.
If he goes in the back door and tells the children certain behaviors are not acceptable in HIS home, the children learn what good behavior is. More flies are gotten with honey than vinegar.
No matter what, whether Palladin can work out the good behavior in these grandchildren or the mother tells him where to put it, I was trying to say the the schools WILL NOT tolerate it (I was not trying to say that one should sit back and LET the schools handle it). When I said, "Society will dictate their behavior. If they act that way in school, something will change"
you know that it is true because you are the proof in the pudding. Having experienced bad behavior in children (young and grown up) you will not tollerate it. I'm I clearer on this?
I could truly understand your distain if you were speaking to a parent, but a Grandparent must find how to make things work, or they lose it all.

[grania]

I've yet to hear an intelligent response to the question: What new behaviors are learned while in *time out*?

The child learns that any behavior, regardless how outrageous it is, will be forgiven if he/she just promises to fit in. He/she learns to modify behavior without development of a sense that bad behavior should be punished. The goal is to fit in, not to be a better person.

The behavior learned is non-accountability and it is pervasive in our society. Now, we have parents who have been brought up on this BS.

[netmilsmom]

>>It is not the 'schools' charter to 'raise' children. It is their charter to 'educate' them. They do a pretty lousy job of 'raising' them. The point I was trying to make was that you want teachers to 'raise' the children, that is their job. So, I shot back, well, you have chosen the job as a parent 'netmilsMOM'. So, why is it not your job to raise them? I toss the challenge back at you - which you throw to the schools/teachers.<<

Bob, at the YMCA in the 80's, I taught children's aerobic's, worked a nursery school program called "Tot Camp", a pre-kindergarten program called "Ready Set Go." and did a summer directing a Day camp. I taught Gifted and Talented Classes in my school district. At that same time, my sister divorced and I raised my niece (6) and my nephew (3) for 9 years. I volunteered in my church nursery, then began having my own children. My kids are young but I am not a little kid myself. For extra money, I took in other children (one girl was with me for 12 hours a day) and so my older daughter could take ballet lessons, I watched kids while moms took aerobic classes.
You are not the only person to have dealt with children's behavior problems.

As for the adoption, Dad and I are already talking about it.

[netmilsmom]

>>The child learns that any behavior, regardless how outrageous it is, will be forgiven if he/she just promises to fit in. He/she learns to modify behavior without development of a sense that bad behavior should be punished. The goal is to fit in, not to be a better person.<<

And wacking a two year old on the butt, teaches him that hitting is a proper behavior. So when Johnny is frustrated, he hauls off and wacks his playmate.

For a small child's mind, isolation works well.
If it doesn't work, explain "prison".

[TheStickman]

*And wacking a two year old on the butt, teaches him that hitting is a proper behavior.*

B$!!!! It teaches there are Negative CONSEQUENCES for that specific behavior. Just like touching a hot stove does. My ass was spanked as a child and I NEVER EVER thought wacking a classmate was *okay*, unless the classmate was about to wack me 1st, of course.

Btw...prison is not about teaching new behavior. It's ALL about PUNISHMENT!!! As it should be.

[SpookBrat]

Thanks for the ping. ***waving from Texas***

I haven't had a chance to read all the thread, but here is my reply...

I used to be one of those patient, long suffering mothers who encouraged my child to feel her feelings, until I got tired of the drama. I decided my parents were right in telling me to "Put a smile on that face and a melody in that voice, young lady".

I finally gave birth to a very emotional, strong willed child (*cough*, don't know where he gets it), and now I just smack both my children on the rear and tell them to cut the crap.

Kids need to learn self control. They can feel sad and angry but they better get over it real quick. My son is working daily on the "self control" fruit of the spirit. When he loses it, he looks at me and says, "I know, I know...self control". Learning to control your emotions, your thoughts and behavior is a difficult, life long chore, but it is absolutely necessary. If my children cannot respect their parents and obey us cheerfully, how can they respect and obey God? Parents are their first "God"...pardon the blasphemy, but it's true. They have to learn it from us first!!!

[SpookBrat]

those not as spiritually advanced as I am are dilettantes, and those more spiritually advanced than I are fanatics.

Are you calling me a fanatic?