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YELLING at kids can cross line if personal (Grandma does hard time)
Atlanta Journal-Constitution | 1/08/04 | MARLON MANUEL

Posted on 01/08/2004 6:17:09 PM PST by Libloather

YELLING at kids can cross line if personal
By MARLON MANUEL
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

All parents have disciplined by decibel at one time or another.

More than 90 percent yell at their kids, threaten to spank them, swear at them, call them names or threaten to kick them out of the house, said family researcher Murray Straus, concluding what adults have known forever: "Children are frustrating."

But there's a huge difference between verbal venting and verbal abuse.

A DeKalb County grandmother crossed that line when she yelled vulgarities and threatened her 13-year-old granddaughter, and it landed her in jail.

"Please, take something tomorrow so you can get out of my house forever, get out of my life forever so I never have to look at you another day in my life!" Venus Taylor screamed at the teenager.

Her rare prosecution in criminal court based only on verbal abuse came about because law enforcement officials received an audiotape with more than four minutes of her tirade. She pleaded guilty Monday to a charge of child cruelty and was sentenced to six months probation, after having spent 19 days in jail.

"Emotional abuse is the most difficult to prove, unless you get it on tape or the adult admits to it," said Hal Reeves, director of social services for the Cobb County Department of Family and Children Services.

Taylor's diatribe in November, 2002, was captured in a call to the contest line of Atlanta radio station KISS 104.1 FM, which gave police a copy of the tape. (The station is owned by Cox Radio, a subsidiary of Cox Enterprises, owner of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.)

After court Monday, Taylor said she was mimicking behavior from her verbally abusive upbringing. "Now I will talk in a lower tone," she said.

Of the 40,000 abuse cases DFCS substantiated in Georgia in 2002, less than 5 percent stemmed from emotional abuse, which encompasses verbal abuse.

"There has to be just continual beating down of the child, something that would stop the child from growing and developing" for such abuse to be proved, said Reeves, himself a father of three.

Researcher Straus observed that as children get older, parents resort to more swearing, name-calling and threats to banish their kids from the house.

One in 10 parents admitted to such behavior with their toddlers. The number swelled to more than half when dealing with 16- and 17-year-olds, according to Straus' study, published in November in the peer-reviewed Journal of Marriage and Family.

"It goes on behind closed doors," Straus said. "Like any other not-so-good behavior, you're more likely to do things when other people don't know about it. Another thing is there aren't clear rules and cultural norms about it."

Polite firmness works better

Studies have shown that constant yelling can lead to delinquency, diminished self-esteem and depression.

Melissa Watts is a reformed yeller.

During her first 14 years as a parent, she relied on lung power to correct her children's behavior -- especially 16-year-old Krystal, her oldest of four daughters.

"When I first started parenting, I did yell," said Watts, a 35-year-old nurse in Auburn, Ga. "I didn't know how to get what I wanted from my daughter. I didn't have the tools I have now, and I would get frustrated. I thought raising my voice would get her to do what I wanted."

When Krystal started cutting classes, though, Watts decided to save her voice. Now she politely, but firmly, gives her children choices: Would you like to clean your room, or leave it dirty and not see your boyfriend tonight?

But even for flummoxed parents, there's a boundary between yelling and degrading.

"There are things that always cross the line," said Nancy McGarrah, a licensed child psychologist in Toco Hill. "You would never say, 'I wish you were dead' or 'I wish you were never born.' "

A crucial test for verbal abuse is in defining the target of the tirade: Is it the child or the behavior? Screaming maniacally that running with scissors is [bleeping] stupid may be OK on occasion. Yelling that your kid is [bleeping] stupid probably isn't.

"Generally, just yelling at a child will not constitute verbal abuse," said Marietta family therapist Michael Popkin, president of Active Parenting Publishing. "It's when you start attacking the child that you cross the line, when you try to hurt with words. Name-calling. Cursing."

Back in the Watts household, Melissa took a parenting class two years ago and resolved to let her actions speak for her.

Things are quieter. And happier.

Watts and her teenager, Krystal, now sit and talk like friends. They never did that amid the bellowing.

"I really did notice a difference," Krystal said. "She no longer yells. It's more like there are hidden messages. If she wants us to do something, she'll ask really nicely if we want to go clean our room. When she does that, we know that she really means it.

"I like it a lot. It's a nicer tone and it makes me feel better about doing it."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Georgia
KEYWORDS: cross; discipline; grandma; kids; line; parenting; personal; verbalabuse; yelling
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TIPS FOR SCREAMING PARENTS

• If your kid has you frustrated to the point of screaming, walk away, recover your cool.

• Recognize how your child's behavior makes you feel. If you're chronically annoyed, it may be a signal he or she actually needs more attention.

• If you blow up at your child, recognize the mistake and apologize. You'll build credibility as a parent.

-- Sources: Active Parent Publishing, WellStar Health System

1 posted on 01/08/2004 6:17:10 PM PST by Libloather
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To: All
Rank Location Receipts Donors/Avg Freepers/Avg Monthlies
28 Arkansas 250.00
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Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

2 posted on 01/08/2004 6:17:48 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Happy New Year)
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To: Libloather

Two wacks. The kid learns respect and to behave.

3 posted on 01/08/2004 6:19:51 PM PST by KantianBurke (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: KantianBurke
I'm with you. Children today have been empowered to the point of their own destruction. To hell with sensitivity training for adults. The message at school, in the media and everywhere else should be that children respect their elders and mind. EOS
4 posted on 01/08/2004 6:27:16 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: KantianBurke
My parents even had a wooden spoon in the car in case we got out of line at a restaurant or church. We got pinches and look out if you got to three. My mom also used to say that she never used to swear until she had kids. If I had to raise 3 daughters, the teenage years would drive me crazy!
5 posted on 01/08/2004 6:27:42 PM PST by WV Mountain Mama (My husband can beat up your metrosexual.)
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To: Libloather
I really see a terrible precedent being set here by this case.

6 posted on 01/08/2004 6:28:16 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: KantianBurke
I would add, the only group rivaling lawyers in their quest to destroy this nation, is the psycobable industry and those they have befuddled in the process.
7 posted on 01/08/2004 6:28:37 PM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: Libloather
Regardless of whether screaming at a kid is a good idea, I find this story extremely bizarre.

If the grandmother was taking care of her granddaughter, it most likely was because her mother abandoned or abused her. Maybe she should have refused to accept the responsibility of taking care of a difficult child?

Will this kid do better in a state foster care system while her grandmother is in jail? I doubt it.
8 posted on 01/08/2004 6:29:06 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Libloather
You want children?
Are You Ready for Children?

Mess Test: Smear peanut butter on the sofa and curtains. Now rub your hands in the wet flowerbed and rub on the walls. Cover the stains with crayons. Place a fish stick behind the couch and leave it there all summer.

Toy Test: Obtain a 55-gallon box of Lego's. (If Lego's are not available, you may substitute roofing tacks or broken bottles.) Have a friend spread them all over the house. Put on a blindfold. Try to walk to the bathroom or kitchen. Do not scream. (This could wake a child at night.)

Grocery Store Test: Borrow one or two small animals (goats are best) and take them with you as you shop at the grocery store. Always keep them in sight and pay for anything they eat or damage.

Dressing Test: Obtain one large, unhappy, live octopus. Stuff into a small net bag making sure that all arms stay inside.

Feeding Test: Obtain a large plastic milk jug. Fill halfway with water. Suspend from the ceiling with a stout cord. Start the jug swinging. Try to insert spoonfuls of soggy cereal (such as Fruit Loops or Cheerios) into the mouth of the jug, while pretending to be an airplane. Now dump the contents of the jug on the floor.

Night Test: Prepare by obtaining a small cloth bag and fill it with 8 - 12 pounds of sand. Soak it thoroughly in water. At 8:00 PM begin to waltz and hum with the bag until 9:00 PM. Lay down your bag and set your alarm for 10:00 PM. Get up, pick up your bag, and sing every song you have ever heard. Make up about a dozen more and sing these too until 4:00 AM. Set alarm for 5:00 AM. Get up and make breakfast. Keep this up for 5 years. Look cheerful.

Physical Test (Women): Obtain a large beanbag chair and attach it to the front of your clothes. Leave it there for 9 months. Now remove 10 of the beans.

Physical Test (Men): Go to the nearest drug store. Set your wallet on the counter. Ask the clerk to help himself. Now proceed to the nearest food store. Go to the head office and arrange for your paycheck to be directly deposited to the store. Purchase a newspaper. Go home and read it quietly for the last time.

Final Assignment: Find a couple who already has a small child. Lecture them on how they can improve their discipline, patience, tolerance, toilet training, and child's table manners. Suggest many ways they can improve. Emphasize to them that they should never allow their children to run riot. Enjoy this experience. It will be the last time you will have all the answers.

In 1900, a happy meal was when Father shared funny stories around the table.

Today, a happy meal is what Dad buys at McDonald's.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1900, a father was involved if he spanked the kid now and then.

Today, a father's involved only if he coaches Little League and organizes Boy Scouts and car pools.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1900, when fathers entered the room, children often rose to attention.

Today, kids glance up and grunt, "Dad, you're invading my space."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1900, fathers threatened their daughters suiters with shotguns if the girl came home late.

Today, fathers break the ice by saying, "So...how long have you had that earring?"

Child sent to bed
A small boy is sent to bed by his father...

[Five minutes later]

"Da-ad..."

"What?"

"I'm thirsty. Can you bring me a drink of water?"

"No. You had your chance. Lights out."

[Five minutes later]

"Da-aaaad..."

"WHAT?"

"I'm THIRSTY...Can I have a drink of water??"

"I told you NO! If you ask again I'll have to spank you!!"

[Five minutes later]

"Daaaa-aaaAAAAD..."

"WHAT??!!"

"When you come in to spank me, can you bring me a drink of water?"

9 posted on 01/08/2004 6:37:27 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Libloather
Now she politely, but firmly, gives her children choices: Would you like to clean your room, or leave it dirty and not see your boyfriend tonight?

And what are you going to do when your children say "ef you"?

When she does that, we know that she really means it.

But we know she can't do anything. Heck, she's not even allowed to yell.

10 posted on 01/08/2004 6:38:24 PM PST by sistergoldenhair
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To: Calpernia
Concur.
11 posted on 01/08/2004 6:52:08 PM PST by BenLurkin (Socialism is Slavery)
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To: Calpernia
I really see a terrible precedent being set here by this case.

I'm with you, big time.

12 posted on 01/08/2004 6:53:19 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma (MY GOD is bigger than some dead dude named mohammed)
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To: Calpernia
I can't even believe this one. It seems to me the more I read the more nuts this society has become. The thought, word, and deed police are everywhere, and it ain't W's fault!
13 posted on 01/08/2004 6:55:38 PM PST by ladyinred (W/04)
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To: All
Having been a child raised by strict parents, I know what it means to feel unloved. Having been a parent, I know what it feels like to have lost control of my children's behavior (as teen-agers) and now as a Grandparent, taking care of two little ones, I still recognize what it's like to be on both sides of the issue. Now they KNOW I love them, cause I hug them and tell them; but I fan their behinds if they are insolent or overtly disobedient. If I swore at them or wished they had never been borne, then I would get on my knees and beg forgiveness; from them and from God.
14 posted on 01/08/2004 6:56:47 PM PST by jatfla
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To: KantianBurke
And you go to jail.
15 posted on 01/08/2004 7:01:33 PM PST by ladylib
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To: Nachum
Find a couple who already has a small child. Lecture them on how they can improve their discipline, patience, tolerance, toilet training, and child's table manners. Suggest many ways they can improve. Emphasize to them that they should never allow their children to run riot. Enjoy this experience.

As a childless person, I have a lot of fun doing this.

Hehe.

16 posted on 01/08/2004 7:02:31 PM PST by WackyKat
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To: Nachum
Cut, pasted and printed. Very funny, indeed.
17 posted on 01/08/2004 7:03:52 PM PST by raybbr
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To: ladyinred
I am pretty speechless over this one. I'm not even going near whether this grandmother was or wasn't out of line.

The fact that this went to court and created a legal precedent....has redefined the legal definition of child abuse and has set the stage for more legal stupidity.

18 posted on 01/08/2004 7:04:50 PM PST by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: sistergoldenhair
When your kid say "ef you" just send her to any one of the marvelous public schools in FL which have resource officers who carry taser guns and use them:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1053866/posts
19 posted on 01/08/2004 7:05:54 PM PST by ladylib
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To: Calpernia
Exactly. I am not condoning what grandma said either, it is just the very idea that bothers me.
20 posted on 01/08/2004 7:07:24 PM PST by ladyinred (W/04)
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