Black Confederates

phxnews ^ | January 8, 2004 | Charles Goodson

[U S Army EOD]

Same thing here with the neighbors, with my mother being a teacher and our black neighbor, Welcome Maison being the principal.

And by the way, we have Garrison Hurst here in Lincolnton and Rome doesn't. Red Devil football, the best in the state.

[AnAmericanMother]

Have you read The Guns of the South? Interesting alternative history. I'm sorry Turtledove felt like he had to put in the fantasy-time travel element - Life magazine did a better job of hypothesizing a series of cumulative breaks for the South (A.S. Johnston and Stonewall survived; no Pickett's Charge; Lee cuts off the reinforcements coming in to Gettysburg, etc.) to get the same result.

I wonder who would have called the Smith-Jones game, and if it was Howard Cosell, what would he have said? ;-)

[U S Army EOD]

No never read the book. Have no idea who would have called the game. But little quirks of fate make you wonder sometime what would have really happened.

And when you think of alternate history you wonder how much of the history that is written down is actual history and not an alternate interpretation of history because the writer didn't like the facts and decided to change a few events here and there.

In saying this, it is interesting how different the personnal accounts from what you read about from your relatives and the ones that I have seen differ from the offical history books.

[WhiskeyPapa]

They also received excellent medical care you don't let an investment like that just die off.

"Frustrated in their attempts to change the law, fire-eaters turned their efforts to breaking it. The most famous example of the illicit slave trade in the 1850's was the schooner Wanderer, owned by Charles A. L. Lamar, member of a famous and powerful southern family. Lamar orgnized a syndicate that sent several ships to Africa for slaves. One of these pas the Wanderer, a fast yacht that took on a cargo of five hundred africans in 1858. The four hundred survivors

of the voyage to Georgia earned Lamar a large profit. But federal officials had got wind of the affair and arrested Lamar along with several crew members. Savannah juries acquitted all of them. The grand jurors who had indicted Lamar suffered so much vilification from the local press as dupes of Yankee imitators that they published a bizarre recantation of their action and advocated repeal of the 1807 law prohibiting the slave trade. "Longer to yield to a sickly sentiment of pretended philanthropy and diseased mental aberration of 'higher law' fanatics," said the jurors in reference to opponents of the trade, "is weak and unwise." When northerners criticized the acquittal of Lamar, a southern newspaper denounced Yankee Hypocrisy: "What is the difference between a Yankee violating the fugitive slave law in the North, and a Southern man violating . . . the law 'against the African slave trade in the South?" Lamar repurchased the Wanderer at public auction and went on with his slave-trading ventures until the Civil War, in which he was killed at the head of his regiment."

Battle Cry of Freedom, p 103, by James McPherson

Twenty percent of the Wanderer's cargo died on the way here.

Walt

[AnAmericanMother]

Nobody in our family has played football since my grandfather (class of '18) started for Ga. Tech at halfback. My dad swam for Darlington and Emory, I didn't play sports in high school and just weird stuff like fencing and equestrian team in college.

I don't think I have ever been to more than one or two football games, and my daughter (who's now at the same high school) has no interest either. You know the private schools got shafted by Speaker Murphy as one of his last acts in office, so I don't expect we'll be winning at anything except debate and lacrosse for 15-20 years now . . . But I'm glad you have a good football team! :-D

[WhiskeyPapa]

A salute to those black confederates who fought for the freedom we all lost when the damnYankees won.

There were practically no black confederates.

But this is interesting:

" Kudos to Carroll Wilson for his Sunday column ("A lack of evidence: Blacks did not fight for the South, despite what Confederate apologists argue," July 9, page 6B). Robert McNeely's (letter to the editor, "Fighting for states rights," March 25, page 6B) and Randy Hill's (letter to the editor, "Blacks fought for South,"March 24, page 7B) reference to the 1st Louisiana Regiment of Native Guards has enough spin on it to make a statue of Abe Lincoln dizzy.

The Louisiana "Native Guards" were organized years before the Civil War. When the war came, they offered themselves to the Confederate leadership because it was the only government they had to offer themselves to in order to maintain and enhance their status as "free people of color." But the Confederacy turned down the offer. When the United States took New Orleans, the Native Guards offered themselves to the United States for the rest of the war, killing many Confederates.

When New Orleans was evacuated by the Confederate authorities in March 1862 they were ordered to report to Mjr. Gen. John Lewis, who commanded the state militia under the orders of Gov. Thomas O. Moore, but the Native Guards did not leave. The Creole in command, instead of following the Confederate troops out of the city when they evacuated it, allowed his command to be cut off, and then volunteered to Union Gen. Butler to serve in the Union. On June 6, 1863, the four regiments of the Louisiana Guards were transferred into the Corps d'Afrique. On April 4, 1864, these regiments were designated the 73rd, 74th, 75th and 76th Regiments of Infantry, United States Colored Troops, respectively, and served in that capacity 'til the end of the Civil War. On May 27, 1863, the "free blacks" of the Louisiana Regiments were to distinguish themselves in the battle of Port Hudson against Confederate forces before the 54th Massachusetts Regiment would storm Fort Wagner and gain modern fame in the movie "Glory." An editorial in the New York Tribune of June 8,1863, eloquently declared: "That heap of six hundred corpses, lying there dark and grim and silent and within the Rebel works, is a better proclamation of freedom than even President Lincoln's. A race ready to die thus was never yet retained in bondage and never can be."

Walt

[AnAmericanMother]

Quite late and quite unusual, and as MacPherson himself notes more of a political action by "fire-eaters" than the ordinary course of business. The vast majority of slaves were imported long before the 1850s, and by New Englanders.

[WhiskeyPapa]

A salute to those black confederates who fought for the freedom we all lost when the damnYankees won.

I thought this was neat.

"On the steaming night of June 6, 1863, four rebel regiments surprised black guards. The black novices, soldiers for only sixteen days, fumbled with their guns, fell back, stood firm, and flashed their bayonets. The blacks' white captain called the ensuing bayonet brawl "a horrible fight, the worst I was ever engaged in—not even excepting Shiloh."

In one ironic tableau, a Union black and a Confederate white lay slam, arms locked like brothers, each with the other's bayonet planted in his belly. At last, a Union ship reinforced the unyielding blacks, and the rebels retreated.

Black soldiers, declared an astounded Confederate battle report, resisted us "with considerable obstinacy, while the white or true Yankee portion ran like whipped curs."

One Confederate master suffered the best proof of black obstinacy. His slave captured him "and brought him into camp with great gusto." A Wisconsin cavalry officer described the lesson many Northerners learned from Fort Wagner and Milliken's Bend (and from the battle for Port Hudson, Louisiana, where black troops futilely charged and their bodies were left to rot under the blazing sun), "I never believed in niggers before, but by Jasus, they are hell for fighting."

--"The South vs. the South" p. 127 by William Freehling

Guess them white boys just weren't suited for fighting.

Walt

[U S Army EOD]

Once again read before you speak, we are not talking about what happened on the ships we are talking about on the established plantations. Most if not all of the ships were Northern owned or crewed. I would compare the illicit trade slave at that time since it was outlawed in 1807 to bringing illegal immigrants into this country in modern times who also seem to die off at an alarming rate.

When and if you do check your history, check also how many immigrants coming to the New World died on the voyage over, especially the children.

After reading most of your comments on the threads about the Civil War it is quite apparent that you basically only care to try and discredit the South instead of actually discussing history. You are quite consistant in this.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Quite late and quite unusual, and as MacPherson himself notes more of a political action by "fire-eaters" than the ordinary course of business.

What McPherson notes is that Lamar received a large profit.

No lie is too grotesque for confederate apologists.

Walt

[Main Street]

X, Thank you for the link! I found my great grand father there! Here is what they have on him....

Charles V. Lombardi (First_Last) Regiment Name 39 U.S. Col'd. Infantry Side Union Company BF Soldier's Rank_In Lieut. Soldier's Rank_Out Lieut. Alternate Name Notes Film Number M589 roll 55

--------------------------------------

African American Civil War Memorial Displayed as: Charles V. Lombardi Plaque Number: C-54 --------------------------------------

We have his service record in our possession. It states he survived the Battle but that he was killed when the Fort's powder magazine blew up. He was a Captain in Gen. Garibaldi's Red Shirt Volunteers in Italy, before coming to America to fight specifically to free the slaves. He also fought at the Battle of Petersburg, and survived the Battle of the Crater here.

Here's his picture taken ca. 1861......

.............................................

[WhiskeyPapa]

Most if not all of the ships were Northern owned or crewed.

False. Most slave ships were flagged in Britain.

Walt

[Main Street]

"And no one, given the choice, would like to be treated like a horse...."- dwd1

dwd1, I understand what your saying, and agree, when a man is living under normal circumstance. However, I know of many circumstances in history, if men were giving a choice, life time bondage on a Southern Plantation would have been snatched up in an instant.

[WhiskeyPapa]

After reading most of your comments on the threads about the Civil War it is quite apparent that you basically only care to try and discredit the South instead of actually discussing history. You are quite consistant in this.

It sure didn't take much effort to prove you were lying about which armored divison broke into Bastogne.

Walt

[Main Street]

mac_truck,

What you say is valid, but so is the information U S Army EOD, and AnAmericanMother have posted. Both have shown that they have an understanding of history that is not taught in today's liberal PC history classes. The reality is, that, as miserable as the conditions of those ships were, they were designed for human transport, and to bring as many of their human cargo here alive as possible to maximize profits. White slaves and indentured servants, had little monetary value, and often were treated much worse, and traveled on ships in conditions that equaled or surpassed that misery, if you can imagine.

[WhiskeyPapa]

...it is quite apparent that you basically only care to try and discredit the South...

Well, that is pretty easy, I will admit.

The rebels were --damned--traitors--every--one--.

Walt

[AnAmericanMother]

Wlat, this gets quite old. You seem determined to abuse all Southerners and find nothing but evil everywhere.

I am no apologist as you should know. Slavery was an unmitigated evil and did no good for anybody anywhere. It does not follow however that all Confederates were depraved monsters with the worst possible motives. So long as you jump in with your superior attitude, scatter-shot abuse, and masses of supercopied undigested material, nobody is going to give your views much credence.

[U S Army EOD]

I didn't say they broke into Bastone, they were the first to push the Germans back. They then defended Bastone against 5 German divisions. Check a little more and you might find out what happened.

You are one little sicko. Lots of emotion, sonny.

[AnAmericanMother]

Yeah, and all those ships sailing around now with Liberian registry were built, captained and crewed from Monrovia, right?

[U S Army EOD]

You are wrong again, the English hunted slavers.