What ever happened to "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free..."

CookingWithCarlo.com ^ | 01/11/2004 | Carlo3b Dad, Chef, Author

[StonyBurk]

I have NO problem with those who come here to be Americans.
when my ancestors came LEGALLY from Ireland and Germany they
were rightly told whatever they left behind is left behind.
They were told you are No longer Irishmen,nor Germans--but
Americans. The politics,language, and flag you left behind to come here belong to the country you left behind. English
is spoken here. There is little room for doubt that many of
the Illegals come here to better themself. But Why do the
Mexicans come only for the employment their own government
will not provide?We have NO obligaiton to provide work and
wellfare to those who do not want to be 100%Americans.

[Young Rhino]

I have no problem with a legal guest worker program provided (a) they are not entitled to welfare and other government handouts, (b) they cannot bring kids with them to burden the public school system, (c) they cannot marry a U.S. citizen without a rigorous background check (at their expense) to ensure that the marriage is not a fraud, (d) any children born in the U.S. are not entitled to automatic U.S. citizenship, (e) a guest worker cannot bring either friends or family to the U.S., (f) there is a 25-year moratorium on non-English speaking immigrants while assimilation occurs, (g) there is an effective deportation system in place, and (h) immigration is based solely on what the immigrant can bring to the U.S. in terms of education, skills, and assets. As for the guest worker program, I'd require Mexico to abandon Spanish as its official language and make English a mandatory second language in its school system. I'd also require Mexico to abandon its no-extradition policy that it uses with glee to harbor fugitives from U.S. justice.

[Zipporah]

There are no native Indians ..you are exactly right.. A "nation of immigrants" could be said of every country in the world.

[independentmind]

As for the guest worker program, I'd require Mexico to abandon Spanish as its official language and make English a mandatory second language in its school system. I'd also require Mexico to abandon its no-extradition policy that it uses with glee to harbor fugitives from U.S. justice.

I'm not sure about your specific proposals, but I too would like to see Mexico make some concessions to us.

[Zipporah]

I agree with your conditions.. but something to also consider.. the guest worker proposal does not just apply to Mexicans.. any job is up for grabs. This is a way for large firms to circumvent the H-1 visa program.. no longer will the IT industry have to worry about outsourcing.. they will be brought to the US under this plan to replace American workers.

[The Wizard]

we did that, they came, we saved the world twice, at least, and now it's time to control immigration

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

Your posit is wrong. The Mexican illegals don't yearn to be free. They aren't interested in becoming American citizens. They aren't interested in learning the English language. They are not coming from an oppressed land ruled by unelected despots. They like Cortez have come for the gold. They want become "rich" and return to Mexico.

[saveliberty]

Your assumptions are flawed.

An American who steals someone's identity goes to jail. An illegal alien who steals someone's identity and messes up their contributions/retirement plans/credit rating will now be okay?

Employers are not allowed to question the paperwork, but they are charged a fine if there is a Taxpayer ID mismatch. Real life examples - worker produces ID and Social Security number of one person, gets job, works for a year and then says that no, this is his real information and produces new name and Soc Sec number (each of which is totally different), next year does the same thing.

Employer knows, pays fine and is legally barred from questioning.

IRS knows, gets money and is legally barred from providing the information to INS.

Illegal immigrant gets the benefit of selective compliance of the law.

I read a number of articles about the new legislation being proposed and the common theme was that illegals who'd been here a long time were perplexed that they had "invested" 20 or so years and why should they give this up?

Freedom is not an entitlement to benefits or a permission to be above the law.

Why stop at identity theft? If someone is justified in his mind to break laws, why not break more? And in fact, the criminal record of illegal aliens is vastly higher than that of legal immigrants and US citizens. The welfare rolls are vastly higher for illegals and legals.

Here's the last thought: how is it that these abuses of the current system and proposals to create a guest worker program are not abusive to illegals by creating permanent underclasses in both the US and Mexico (and other countries that want their tired and poor out of their own countries)? We don't need to have to think of a job as unchanging. If employers could not hire illegals, then they would either a) sponsor legals or b) find some better means of automating some jobs.

This is another policy that sounds humane but is determined to nail all immigrants to the lowest possible income level.

Helping isn't enabling.

[Vigilanteman]

They like Cortez have come for the gold. They want become "rich" and return to Mexico.

Wrong on the last statement friend. In truth, they want become "rich" and return the Southwestern United States to Mexico.

[Hardastarboard]

The inscription on the Statue of Liberty is poetry, not policy (not my quote, but I can't remember who to attribute it to).

I'm not anti-immigrant (I come from immigrants, a LONG time ago). BUT - there's only so much space here. How much longer do you want your commute to take? I really like Indians and Chinese people. I love working with them and knowing them, and being buddies with them (Indian guys are especially cool), but we can't bring ALL of them here, or we'd have a disaster.

It comes down to common sense. If you've got a great party going, but the room is full, do you keep crowding people in, or does the fire marshal have the right to intervene? Sure, there will be some angry people outside, but what about those inside? Want to jeopardize everyone? That's the reality of what we're up against.

[waterstraat]

My husband was naturalized about 2 years ago, and there is a 150 question study review that covers basic civics (branches of government, number of members in House and Senate, Amendments, Qualifications for office, etc.) and history (previous Presidents, their accomplishments, etc.)

How many questions did they ask on the Right to Bear Arms?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

You asked me once if I had any hope for the future of this nation. At the time I said I held out only the slightest splinter.

Well, after this foolish plan of your president's, I've dropped to zero.

We will become Jugoslavia. The idea of assimilation has been thrown down the well of history. Without the melting pot, immigration of legals or illegals will only Balkanize us further until nothing is left of the old America.

[MEG33]

You and I see the world through different eyes.I am hopeful for the future because we are America.

[steve50]

I'm not sure about your specific proposals, but I too would like to see Mexico make some concessions to us.

They will. In a year or so they'll start to "privitize" the national oil industry. It would be too obvious to do it any sooner.

[sauropod]

Carlo. It is not like it used to be. Nowadays, immigrants do not care to assimilate into the "American" culture. And the State accomodates them (multilingual education, voter's ballots, etc.).

[ODDITHER]

Until now, I have avoided replying to most immigration posts because most of the posters are so passionate about this issue that I am sure nothing I said would change their mind. As to the proposal the President Bush has proposed, I have not made up my mind. I do have some questions that I would like answered.


First of all, I would like to preface my remarks and questions on the fact that I refuse to call them undocumented workers. Most illegal immigrants have more documents than any citizen. They are either forged, or stolen. Very few have no documents. Changing their name does nothing to change their status.. Illegal immigrant is a humane name. They could be called, wanted criminals.

Dederal state and local officials know that revenues collected via emplooyment taxes for Illegal Immigrants (II's) is gravy, they do not file for refunds or try to collect social security. Because of this, they have turned a blind eye for the last 20+ years.

Estimates are that there are 10 million illegal workers in the US.
How many immigration officers would it take to round them up and export them?

How much would the taxpayers pay to hunt down,go through the court sytem and send them back over the border?

Will this plan be enforcable and will this plan reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the future?

Will there be enough teeth in the law to ensure that emplyers will be held accountable if they hire II's?

Will it stop future illegal immigration?

Will it put undo hardship on businesses or impact the economy?
Will it require state and local governments to enforce the law?

In closing, most of the posters that are passionate about this subject, also hate NAFTA and are against the corps that have moved their companies to other countries. I believe that these subjects are not mutually exclusive.

I thank the lord that we live in a country so free and successful that people risk their lives to get get into our great nation, rather than risking their lives to get out.

[NMFXSTC]

EXACTLY!!!!

That cute llittle inscription says "Bring me"...it does not say to smuggle them in and not let me know!

The intent of that cutesy prose was exactly that...legally make immigrants new citizens, and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

What's WRONG is allowing an illegal legal status without already established process!

I-L-L-E-G-A-L !!!!!!!!!!!! Easy enough to comprehend, Si???

Free medical, free licensing, welfare, education, etc., etc. HHHmmmmm??? For violating the law?

The average AMERICAN (yeah...legal dudes..us!) toils all the way through late July or early August before any wages actually hit the account or pocket..the first seven months of work are simply to paytaxes...think about it:

- Fed INcome tax
- state income tax
- property tax
- sales tax
- gasoline tax
- county tax
- city taxes
- franchise tax
- communications tax
- toll taxes
- mill levy taxes, etc., etc.

Yeah...I wanna legalize an illegal and pay MORE taxes to support him/her!

Hey...smoke a doobie and get caught...illegal? Yup! amnesty? NOPE!

Sameo - sameo...either we have a law or we don;t...turning a government head and giving nod to illegal acts is outrageous and will cost the tax payer!

[sauropod]

Emma Lazarus was a communist IIRC.

The US is under no such requirement, no matter what the words on the Statue of Liberty say.

[NittanyLion]

A wonderfully-written essay. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that these immigrants will become an immediate drain on our entitlement programs. Two and three generations ago, your ancestors and mine produced value for the US, and took none. Until entitlement programs are no longer US policy, an open borders policy will be inappropriate.

[NMFXSTC]

AAH..see it's OK to bear arms (that 2nd Amendment thingy sez so...and I'll shoot anyone who sez it ain't so or tries to take my gun!)