(Arabs Are) The Irish of the World: Understanding our current struggle.

National Review ^ | January 14, 2004 | John Derbyshire

[Snuffington]

Very good (though rather discouraging) article. I very much agree with his conclusion: "This is going to be a long, wearying fight."

On the other hand, the "I didn't read the article" crowd are going to go nuts over that headline.

[ameribbean expat]

What's the difference between an Arab wedding and an Arab Funeral? One less drunk.

Somehow it just doesn't have the same punch.

(Famine Irish great great grandfather for the professionally sensitive)

[carton253]

You can't see this...but you are receiving one heck of a standing ovation from me!

[neverdem]

I have read that the concept of zero originated with the Hindus also. The Arabs took it like they take our technology. But I do believe the Arabs were the first to appreciate optics.

[ffusco]

Doubtful, as Irish were despised by previous immigrant populations who saw them as a threat to their economic survival. No one thought the Irish were trying to destroy western civilization with a death cult. And as we are no longer a growing industrial nation we are no longer able to assimilate the great unwashed from Mexico, so it is not racism but pragmatism.

[dangus]

Darb's one shortcoming (if it is to be called that) is that he is prejudiced in the way paleo-conservatives tend towards bias. He was brought up to consider only English positions in the UK v. Ireland. To re-evaluate these positions smacks of modernism ("Who are we to question the traditional distastes?"). Hence, he maintains all the traditional British biases: anti-Catholic, anti-French (just cause you're prejudiced don't mean you're wrong!) and anti-Irish, [and to treat Americans with an affectionate paternal condescendence ("What are those whippersnappers up to now?"), but I haven't seen this so much in Darb.]

Unfortunately, we conservatives cannot discuss the difficulty of modernism v. prejudice, because prejudice has come to mean precisely hatred and violence. Please understand that I do not mean to ascribe such nastiness to Darb. This is not the sense of the word "prejudice" I mean. I like him (even though I'm a French/Celtic Catholic American). I don't just mean I like his writings. I've corresponded with him and I mean to say I like HIM. And I'd like to think -- based on a few columns he's written -- he'd understand what I was trying to say and not take offense at it, even though it is the nature of prejudice to not consider one's viewpoints as prejudicial.

[John H K]

No one thought the Irish were trying to destroy western civilization with a death cult

There was the same general terror of "Papists" in the US in the late 1800s (read up on the Know-Nothings, and people forget the Klan started out as equally anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish as anti-Black) as there is of Islam now.

People were fearful of what they perceived as an alien religion (If there was a FR in 1876, all of the "the US is fundamentally a CHRISTIAN country" articles we see now would be "the us is fundamentally a PROTESTANT" country) and fantasized Catholics were a hive mind controlled by a distant evil Pope.

[VeritatisSplendor]

The Irish never thought they had a God-given imperative to conquer the world.

Lose a city? Paterson NJ and Dearborn MI come to mind.

No they can't defeat us. But we better stop letting them in.

Spain with a birthrate of 1.2. How does it break down? About 1 child per Spanish woman and 4 for the less than 10% Muslim? Takes about 3 generations. No more Spain.

Having children is voting for your future. Vote early, vote often.

Mrs VS

[VeritatisSplendor]

Lets credit the Ottomans for smallpox variolation.

And on the other hand, biological warfare -catapulting the bodies of those dead from the plague into besieged cities.

Mrs VS

[Rollee]

You are right, but I will take you one further: The young Irish today don't give much thought about anything except where the next pint is coming from, smoking and getting a job in the EU. Oh, I almost forgot: they don't like Americans and hate, hate, hate President Bush, like the good little lefties they are.

[Colosis]

Not this one :)

[Rollee]

Thank God! A voice of sanity! There is hope, after all. I was in Ireland over Thanksgiving and everyone I met (granted, all my relatives) that discussed American politics stated that they hope Dean the nutcase wins and they hate President Bush and believe we had no right to go to war, blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. Good to meet you, FRiend.

[dangus]

I didn't mean to slam the Irish (or blacks), and I don't agree with your assessment. When I lived in Boston, the new Irish immigrants were hated by the older generations because they had such drive, not wasting themselves with the corruption of the likes of Menino, Kennedy, Birmingham and Finneran.

[browardchad]

it is the nature of prejudice to not consider one's viewpoints as prejudicial

True -- reading this column, and being the child of Irish immigrants, did not offend me, it made me smile, because it is so typical of both the Irish and the Brits to attempt to filter events, however incongruously, through the lens of their centuries-old antagonisms.

I particularly enjoyed this description of the Brit's attitude toward the Irish from "McCarthy's Bar," by Pete McCarthy (a Brit of Irish heritage):

"Each 17 March brings to a head the inability of the English middle classes to deal with the Irish Problem, in the sense that Ireland is a problem because it exists....

The gist of their bile is that despite a glorious empire, two World Wars, the Falklands, Margaret Thatcher and a Queen Mother who retained an impressive capacity for gin and Dubonnet well into her nineties, the English refuse to celebrate St. George's Day. No one knows when it is; and in any case, St. George is also claimed as a celestial person by Alsace. So it's just not fair that we let all these paddies make such a fuss for the Irish saint, who was Welsh anyway; and while we're at it, how come we let Irish people who live over here vote, instead of locking them up? After all, it's not as if the Irish are just Catholic. They're Catholic and pagan, and that's just not on."

[Rollee]

My reference was to the young Irish in Ireland. They have no intention of coming here and working. They want the EU to fix everything for them.

[Colosis]

The problem here is that people are never challenged. I love it when people here ask me my position on the war. I always tell them straight out that I'm a George Bush republican. Some are shocked, others are sort of impressed. And there are others here fight the good fight, just like the good folks here on FR.

[ffusco]

"People were fearful of what they perceived as an alien religion"

A very arrogant and misguided view on their part. Everyone knows that Catholicism is Christianity.

[Rollee]

Good for you! All is not lost for Ireland, then. You are absolutely right about people need to be challenged. It is easy for no good forces to control people's minds when there is a false sense of security. We got our wake up call on September 11th. I hope Ireland does not have to go through that, but the populace does need to wake up. (I am basing my comments on conversations with my relatives in Ireland. The last time I was there was over Thanksgiving, the time before that my husband and I visited in 1998. I have been there at least 10 times in my life.) Anyway, I have a hard time dealing with the leftist thinking I encounter both there and here at home with my family. Thank God for Free Republic! BTW, what county are you located in?

[Colosis]

I live in Ennis (Co Clare) but I'm from Donegal and thats where my heart is. I'm single handedly holding back the tide if socialism washing over europe. If I ever meet your relatives, I'll give 'em a good kick in the arse for you! Cheers...