RUDYARD KIPLING-- Hard Lessons About Human Nature For Utopian Multiculturalists!

ICONOCLAST ^ | Stephen Rittenberg

[Apolitical]

"...They promised perpetual peace. They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease. But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe..."

As the British Empire declined so too did the reputation of Rudyard Kipling. A great story teller, he was, as George Orwell noted, the poet laureate of empire. Gradually Kipling came to be viewed as anachronistic and archaic. A more liberal and supposedly more tolerant view became the dominant one amongst English speaking wordsmith intellectuals, so that by the time Kipling died in 1936, socialism, communism and pacifism were the reigning ideologies.

Orwell described Kipling as: "a jingo imperialist?morally insensitive and aesthetically disgusting." And it's true, Kipling's poetry often amounts to doggerel of the shallowest sort. However, the emergence of utopian liberalism brought its own shallow and wishful thinking, especially about human nature, culminating in our current multicultural insistence that no one culture or set of beliefs is superior to any other.

George Orwell however, began questioning the assumptions of his fellow socialists. Unlike most of his contemporaries who yearned for an egalitarian, workers' paradise, Orwell saw much to value in Kipling, especially his gem like clarity about human nature. Kipling understood the longing for utopia and the social dangers that would follow. He anticipated the advent of totalitarians wishing to make us better than we truly are.

In fact, the totalitarian left rose to power propelled by an idea: the utopian idea that human nature can be changed by reorganizing society. Anyone can sign on to this idealistic enterprise merely by accepting that idea. Of course, Orwell never completely abandoned his liberal-left politics, but he devoted his creative work to exposing the horrors that often follow in the wake of utopian dreams...

[Paul C. Jesup]

Anyone else here besides me feel that utopianism should be listed as serious mental illense and the aflected should be commited to insane asylums.

[cyborg]

http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/molon_labe.htm

[cyborg]

similar to my fav...

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:PdmD2_FAHggJ:members.tripod.com/selousscouts/pamwe_chete.htm+pamwe+chete&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[wardaddy]

"Come and get them" essentially.

http://www.thefiringline.com/HCI/molon_labe.htm

a fav expression amongst RKBA folks like me and others here.

Regards

[Travis McGee]

When have I EVER said they could conquer or occupy us? NEVER. Can they wreck the world economy by a mass anthrax attack etc? Of course they can. That's why this is a fight to the death, and not just an idle distraction.

[Travis McGee]

This PM my compute blew a gasket, had a stroke, and is on life support. I can barely make it function. If I'm not online for a few days, you'll know why. Please pass this message to anyone trying to contact me.

[Squantos]

Use some of those millions from book sales dang it ! Get ya a laptop backup !.........:o)

[what's up]

G.K. Chesterton was not an admirer of Kipling.

I wonder why?

[novacation]

"Kipling's poetry amount to doggeral of the shallowest sort."
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
or,being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you dream and not make dreams your master;
If you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster,
And treat those two impostors just the same:
etc.

Shallow? I don't think so.

[wizardoz]

He anticipated the advent of totalitarians wishing to make us better than we truly are.

The first thing we must do is fight this notion that totalitarians are "idealists" who wish to make us "better." They wish to eradicate that which makes us human! We must not love ourselves, we must not love our families... we must love "the human race" blindly, equally, without preference, passion, judgment, or nuance.

What they want is to eradicate humanity and replace it with Stepford citizens, automatons with no love of self or family, no capacity for romance or vision, no desire for freedom or autonomy. They want us blank and obedient, willing to accept lives of emptiness and drudgery. They aren't idealists. They are hell's own monsters.

[King Prout]

"Did ye see my notice boards, or did ye not? Ye've eyes in your head, don't attempt to deny it! Ye did!"

preee-cisely.

[Rocky]

Thanks. Very apropos. Sounds like what happened at Gonzales, Texas, during the Texas Revolution:


On the morning of October 2, 1835, Lieutenant Castañeda requested the cannon be returned to the Mexican military - a condition on which it had been loaned to DeWitt's Colony -but the Texians pointed to the gun which stood about 200 yards to their rear, and said, "there it is-come and take it." Soon after the conflict began, at the request of the Anglo-Celtic leaders, the ladies of the settlement hastily made a flag to fly over the cannon. The flag featured a white ground with a black cannon in the center, and the motto "Come and take it!" above and below. http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/GG/qvg1.html

[AnAmericanMother]

I think I understand what the writer is (clumsily) trying to say.

Some of his poetry IS doggerel - because it was intended to be. Kipling's first years back in England after his sojourn writing for an Indian newspaper were spent in Villiers Street, right across from Gatti's Music Hall (under the arches of the Charing Cross railway station). He used to attend the music halls with a local barmaid who "viewed life dispassionately across the zinc countertop she was always swabbing off . . . " He reworked the popular songs of the halls into the "Barrack Room Ballads" - they capture that atmosphere perfectly. And some of them are classics despite the clanking, marching meter - because he had a perfect ear for speech.

“What’s that so black agin’ the sun?” said Files-on-Parade.
“It’s Danny fightin’ ’ard for life”, the Colour-Sergeant said.
“What’s that that whimpers over’ead?” said Files-on-Parade.
“It’s Danny’s soul that’s passin’ now”, the Colour-Sergeant said.

For they’re done with Danny Deever, you can ’ear the quickstep play,
The regiment’s in column, an’ they’re marchin’ us away;
Ho! the young recruits are shakin’, an’ they’ll want their beer to-day,
After hangin’ Danny Deever in the mornin’.

He could write in a more profound vein. His Epitaphs of the War are moving and painful to read - particularly since he lost his own and only son in WWI.

THE WONDER

Body and Spirit I surrendered whole
To harsh Instructors—and received a soul . . .
If mortal man could change me through and through
From all I was—what may The God not do?

HINDU SEPOY IN FRANCE

This man in his own country prayed we know not to what Powers.
We pray Them to reward him for his bravery in ours.

THE COWARD

I could not look on Death, which being known,
Men led me to him, blindfold and alone.

SHOCK

My name, my speech, my self I had forgot.
My wife and children came—I knew them not.
I died. My Mother followed. At her call
And on her bosom I remembered all.

A GRAVE NEAR CAIRO

Gods of the Nile, should this stout fellow here
Get out — get out! He knows not shame nor fear.

PELICANS IN THE WILDERNESS
(A Grave Near Haifa)

The blown sand heaps on me, that none may learn
Where I am laid for whom my children grieve. . . .
O wings that beat at dawning, ye return
Out of the desert to your young at eve!

[King Prout]

"Come you and take them"
Spartans at Thermopylae to Persian delegation upon being ordered to surrender their arms to Persia.
you know how THAT turned out, I trust?

[King Prout]

*waving hands frantically*
Hear! Hear!

[Paul C. Jesup]

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks that. :D

[King Prout]

his imitations of Horace are lovely, and "the centaurs" is masterful.
One of my favorites has to be "The Birthright" - on the glory of English language.

[AnAmericanMother]

you know how THAT turned out, I trust?

They died -- and they saved the rest of the Greek army and set the stage for Salamis.

And they earned undying fame and the honor of all soldiers everywhere, forever.

MOLON LABE

[King Prout]

I have coined a term describing their usual debating tactic:
Ostrichize, v. to refuse to recognize bald facts, to cast out from consideration inconvenient facts, to refuse to associate one's philosophy with bare reality, due to repugnance for /discomfort with /fear of said facts and reality. Ostrichism, n.

[Peter Libra]

A little late this evening, due to my little excursion over to Sault Ste Marie, Michigan- just across from Canada. Absolutely delighted with the posts on this subject. All is not lost . I see you mentioned Jack London. Someone critical of Mr London said that if he decried a capitalist society, he was never made to understand that his wealth could not have come in a Marxist Socialistic society.

This is debatable,but possibly true. What I would like to say is that his People of the Abyss is a true account of his infiltration into the lives of the tragic yet vital people of the East-End, is a work of immense value. This is where my ancestors came from. Thank you Americans, for Jack London - the man that told it like it was, warts and all.