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To: A CA Guy
God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are ONE. Think of them like a rose bush and each one of them is a rose on the same rose bush. This is called the Holy Trinity.

The original Greek term was "persona." It was a term used for actors in a play playing several characters. The man (all actors then were men) stays the same, the face is different. The Trinity is three faces of the same God, like facets on a diamond.

Christ established a leadership of His church for man before he died with Peter. That was the stand-in you never read about.

Christ is not dead. He ascended to return. The Holy Spirit lives. He is active to this day. Therefore, he needs no stand-in, he (as the Holy Spirit) is already here. However, in organizational terms, the church needs leaders and God needs speakers to speak through. The catch is, they are human just like everybody else. Even Peter made mistakes. He was not infallible. Paul says he could not do anything with God. His life after his conversion was constant education as God revealed more to him. He also understood that without the Holy Spirit, he would fail. Repeatedly he was in situations that he would have to be completely dependant on God to carry him through.

There is the "Word" and "Authority" of the Church. Without the Authority, your dogma gets messed up all over the board with mistakes as you self interpret God you "YOUR" image and through the filters of "YOUR" thinking.

Am I different in this manner from the Pope? The Holy Spirit is there to set us straight, to reveal God's word directly to our spirit. Jesus repeatedly rebelled against the dogma of his day and demonstrated that God has another purpose than legalistic rules and laws. Without God's assistance we can do nothing.

Your words "I DON'T KNOW" pretty much wraps it up for me and I would suggest as you self-teach yourself that you pick up a Catechism to at least get a flavor for what you have been misunderstanding.

You mean where I said I don't know the Pope? I don't see anywhere else I said that. I grew up in a Lutheran Church and studied The Catechism. I do understand what it says. It really is not just my interpretation of scripture that tells me some things are contrary to God's will. There are some things plainly spelled out. When The Word says something is an abomination, it shows God really is not happy with it.

I have no problem with the Episcopal leaders creating the orthodox church from the gay one.

The problem a gay churches is the authority problem you mention. Who is the authority? Church authorities or God's word? The early church in Corinth had the same situation and Paul was very concerned about it. Everywhere there has been an authority problem; God's Word trumps Man's authority. Catholicism is no different. There is no church that does not come under God's authority.

I am not so narcissistic that I believe that I alone know what God says. I am completely dependant on God to teach me what I need to know. If it is through a Preacher or Pastor, then that is one way for him to get through to me. Often, when I read His Word he speaks to me directly. Sometimes I see him in life and human affairs indirectly. I believe he is trying desperately to get through to me what I am ready for by any means possible. I just have to keep my mind open to possibilities. He has my attention. (most of the time) Check out "experiencing God" by Henry Blackaby. Very good program. Intensive but awesome. I am not just self-taught Christain. I have had some excellant teachers. I am still learning.

21 posted on 01/21/2004 9:49:56 AM PST by Only1choice____Freedom (The word system implies they have done something the same way at least twice)
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To: Only1choice____Freedom
Christ placed an earthly leader on earth in Peter as the first Pope.
He's not dead as we know death, but on some levels he is not here or we would not be waiting for HIS second coming right where he is to return like a thief in the night when you least expect it?

The Pope has some power in heaven and earth as well. Remember what Christ said to Peter ...
16:19 I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven; and whatever you release on earth will be released in heaven."

Jesus was a Rabbi, he was the promised Savior of Jewish scripture that proclaimed himself as such and only some Jews followed him. These Jews and others formed the original church, the Catholic Church.

Authority is not only an issue with the gay churches, but all those that originally broke away from the original Catholic Church (due to various sinning).

You are interpreting the scriptures yourself and without the Authority of the church, to be sure you are very open to miss-interpretation.
The Catholic Church since Christ himself has kept the records, meanings of scriptures and given directions of all through the Authority of the church.
Without the Authority of the church, you can be endlessly lost.

Accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior for your salvation is what makes Lutherans or anybody Christian. But lacking the Authority of the original church, you tend to be like a chicken running around without a head looking for answers in everything but the right place.

You start to look through only your own eyes and not the eyes of Christ's church and that can lead to humanism real quick.
25 posted on 01/21/2004 7:28:33 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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