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To: rmlew
Sobran lies about Jewish law, recycling Medieval lies aboutthe Talmud andJewish customs.

Following your link, it does appear that Sobran quotes Shahak concerning unflattering depictions of gentiles in the Talmud. It is my understanding that the Torah is the main text of Judaism and the Talmud is merely a collection of Rabbi opinion, so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised that some un-pc stuff got in there, but that doesn't make Sobran a liar - just someone with perhaps a bit of a jewish obsession. Here is a link to an authoritative jewish source that pretty much concedes that what Sobran says about the Talmud is essentially true. http://www.daatemet.org/daathalacha/en_gentiles.html

As far as Buckley getting a pass on his critisizing of Israel, I assume people cut him a break because he did after all dump Sobran and basically called Pat Buchanan an anti-semite. What seems to occur in these cases is that somebody starts out dissing Israel, then the attacks and name calling set in, until finally the person who has been set up thusly becomes even more hostile and obsessed with Jews. Kind of a vicious cycle.

40 posted on 01/20/2004 12:24:02 PM PST by westerfield
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To: westerfield
Following your link, it does appear that Sobran quotes Shahak concerning unflattering depictions of gentiles in the Talmud.
Shahak is a liar, who many anti-Zionists do not trust.

It is my understanding that the Torah is the main text of Judaism and the Talmud is merely a collection of Rabbi opinion, so I wouldn't necessarily be surprised that some un-pc stuff got in there, but that doesn't make Sobran a liar - just someone with perhaps a bit of a jewish obsession. Here is a link to an authoritative jewish source that pretty much concedes that what Sobran says about the Talmud is essentially true. http://www.daatemet.org/daathalacha/en_gentiles.html
The Talmud is a collection of customs, debates, and rulings.
There are plenty of unPC things there. However, Sobran contiues with lies. He lies about Jewish writtings on Jesus. Sobran and Shahak quote parts of rulings or even losing arguements as authoritative and use selective mistranslations.

If you want a collection of Shahak's lies,
http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/israel_shahak.htm
http://www.wernercohn.com/Shahak.html
http://www.meforum.org/article/87
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/exp.html
http://www.adl.org/presrele/asus_12/the_talmud.pdf
http://www.wquercus.com/talmud_attacks.doc

As far as Buckley getting a pass on his critisizing of Israel, I assume people cut him a break because he did after all dump Sobran and basically called Pat Buchanan an anti-semite. What seems to occur in these cases is that somebody starts out dissing Israel, then the attacks and name calling set in, until finally the person who has been set up thusly becomes even more hostile and obsessed with Jews. Kind of a vicious cycle.
Yes, their is a cycle, but only if there is truth behind the initial claim.

46 posted on 01/20/2004 1:01:46 PM PST by rmlew (Peaceniks and isolationists are objectively pro-Terrorist)
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