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More Guns, Less Beeb?
Tech Central Station ^ | 01/23/2004 | Scott Norvell

Posted on 1/23/2004, 6:40:30 AM by farmfriend

More Guns, Less Beeb?

By Scott Norvell

For a group that holds itself up as champions of Democracy, Britain's chattering classes sure can get their knickers in a knot with the will of the people offends their liberal sensibilities.

Case in point: a recent stunt by BBC Radio 4's Today program. As an exercise in grass-roots lobbying, Today asked its 6 million weekly listeners to propose a new law for the new year. A labour MP, Stephen Pound, was drafted to front the bill when it was all over.

More than 10,000 new laws were suggested over the course of a couple weeks. Of those, five were short-listed and voted on via email and telephone by some 26,007 respondents. The results, as one wag put it, "blew up" in the face of Today's producers and presenters.

Clearly expecting some sensible law mandating fat-free potato chips or renewed efforts to save the ruby-throated thrush of Upper Equatorial Guinea, the organizers were obviously aghast when the winner, with 37 percent of the vote, was a law allowing homeowners to use "any means" to defend their property from intruders.

Runners-up included measures forcing people to opt-out if they didn't want their organs donated for transplant after death, a bill to ban smoking in all workplaces including bars and restaurants, a double-headed one on term limits for prime ministers and compulsory voting, and, finally, a ban on Christmas advertising before December 1.

The winning law quickly became known as "Tony Martin's Law" after the Norfolk farmer who spent nearly four years in jail for killing a 16-year-old burglar who had broken into his home.

Currently, the law allows the use of "reasonable force," but in practical terms it tends to weigh heavily in favor of the wrongdoer instead of the wronged, and draconian weapons laws mean homeowners are unlikely to have more than a cricket bat or soup ladle to defend themselves. Tony Martin, in a far-from-unusual act of gall, was sued for lost wages by a second burglar he merely winged.

But after he heard the result, the Labour politician appeared to withdraw his support, arguing: "This bill is unworkable," as it "endorses the slaughter of 16-year-old kids."

Mr. Pound was apoplectic. The bill was "unworkable," he said. "I can't remember who it was who said 'The people have spoken - the bastards,'" he quipped.

Radio 4 later insisted that the remark, a paraphrase of Mark Twain, was tongue-in-cheek, but in the next breath he said his enthusiasm for direct democracy was dampened by the experience.

Other commentators were similarly outraged. The Daily Telegraph predicted the mass slaughter of 16-year-olds with pump-action shotguns across middle England. Simon Jenkins, writing in The Times, was frothing. How dare they, he said.

That the law "should be presented to Parliament with all the dignity of the nation's public service broadcaster is a mockery of democratic process," he wrote.

As usual, the much-maligned tabloids were more in tune with the frustrations of the common folk than the opinion-mongers of the broadsheets. The Today poll was a clear indication of just how frustrated folks in England are with rising crime and the apparent inability of police to do anything about it, they said.

And while a few listeners of Today wrote in to express horror that their compatriots could "endorse vigilantism," most nailed the real problem illustrated by the whole exercise. "Is it surprising that the public is disenchanted with politicians when they patronisingly treat clearly expressed majority democratic wishes like this?" one viewer wrote.

Martin's Law is clearly not going anywhere anytime soon. Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott found the wishes of thousands of the citizens he ostensibly represents to be "amusing." The Guardian called it "embarrassing."

And people wonder why Brits are cynical about their government and media?

Scott Norvell is the London Bureau Chief for Fox News.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; bbc; crime; guns; liberalism; protection; weapons
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1 posted on 1/23/2004, 6:40:30 AM by farmfriend
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To: bang_list
Bang List
2nd Amendment Issues
2 posted on 1/23/2004, 6:42:13 AM by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend
Looks like a FReeper sleeper cell in Jolly Olde England!
3 posted on 1/23/2004, 6:48:33 AM by timpad (Frustrate a liberal - be happy and successful!)
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To: farmfriend
the organizers were obviously aghast when the winner, with 37 percent of the vote, was a law allowing homeowners to use "any means" to defend their property from intruders.

The very idea that these people would want the right to defend themselves.........gastly!

4 posted on 1/23/2004, 7:17:47 AM by alaskanfan
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To: farmfriend; *bang_list
Farmfriend, methinks you gof about the asterisk*
5 posted on 1/23/2004, 7:43:17 AM by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Hmmm, never needed them before. Will remeber next time.
6 posted on 1/23/2004, 8:00:48 AM by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: neverdem
Weird, I always thought the astrict was automatic and it does appear on my GGG indexing even though I didn't put it there. Maybe I will ask John about it.
7 posted on 1/23/2004, 8:02:49 AM by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend
Don't give up on England yet!
8 posted on 1/23/2004, 8:57:43 AM by pau1f0rd
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To: farmfriend
This haughty condescension of the upper liberal elite towards the benighted masses is much more prevalent in Old Blighty than it is over here however loud U.S. conservatives complain about diminishing American freedoms. With the highway camera tickets, arrests for "hate" speech, excoriation and threat of prosecution for anti-Islamist speakers, and the dismissal of legitimate British citizen demands for better protection against criminals, the Brit high mucky-mucks have demonstrated that they know what's best for the filthy non-Marxist rabble ie. average British citizen.
9 posted on 1/23/2004, 11:54:33 AM by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: pau1f0rd
A tip of the topper to you Brits on this one. You have a lot of friends on this side rooting for old-style British common sense to win the day. (I've been going to a lot of Gilbert and Sullivan productions lately, so I'm all fired up on your behalf!!)
10 posted on 1/23/2004, 1:33:49 PM by speedy
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To: farmfriend
it is time to lay seige to parliament. surround it and let no one in or out and stand firmly united with sticks and stones...

when the elitist inner core call to their minions to disperse the angry crowd, will they carry guns to persuade the oppressed masses, i bet they will...

free men every where are being given a choice, surrender or fight for the honor of being free men...

sticks and stones...

teeman8r
11 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:00:04 PM by teeman8r (it is so much nicer to sing kumbaya over the graves of tyrants)
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To: teeman8r
it is time to lay seige to parliament. surround it and let no one in or out and stand firmly united with sticks and stones...

Revive the spirit of old Guy Fawkes! Or maybe even the spirit of some other (at the time) British subjects - the American Revolutionaries!

12 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:15:37 PM by FierceDraka (Service and Glory!)
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To: farmfriend
Mr. Pound was apoplectic. The bill was "unworkable," he said. "I can't remember who it was who said 'The people have spoken - the bastards,'" he quipped.

Somewhere in England there is a bureaucrat sitting in an office with a massive vein throbbing on his purpling forehead.

The sheer joy that image brings me is indescribable. Anyone think we can do it to Ted Kennedy and Chucky Schumer?

13 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:15:58 PM by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: farmfriend
'The people have spoken - the bastards,'" he quipped.

I believe the speaker was Dick Tuck, Democratic political operative and (at least once)candidate for political office.

Tuck was well known for creative "dirty tricks" in political campaigns. I believe he's the guy who intentionally stalled a beat up car on a busy rush hour route. The car was covered in "Goldwater for President" signs.

He's best known for his on-going torment of Richard Nixon. At a Nixon rally Tuck once gave signs reading "Nixon's the One" to several pregnant women.
14 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:17:49 PM by G L Tirebiter
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To: pau1f0rd
5. The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defense, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute I W. & M. st.2. c. 2. and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.
-- William Blackstone

It's long past time to ease the "due restrictions."

15 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:18:57 PM by Mackey (A disarmed citizen becomes a slave of his government.)
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To: farmfriend
I say, what?

There may be some life left in Old Blighty yet!

16 posted on 1/23/2004, 2:23:03 PM by Gritty ("A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." --Bertrand de Jouvenal)
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To: farmfriend
And people wonder why Brits are cynical about their government and media?

Let's see if the same folks that put the British Clinton and his fellow gun-grabbers in office will actually vote - in a real election - to throw these bustards out of office. Until that happens, I don't have much faith in the British public - they aren't their grandparents, who stood alone against the Nazis.

17 posted on 1/23/2004, 3:31:57 PM by Ancesthntr
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To: farmfriend
Other commentators were similarly outraged. The Daily Telegraph predicted the mass slaughter of 16-year-olds with pump-action shotguns across middle England. Simon Jenkins, writing in The Times, was frothing. How dare they, he said.

Um, at the very most, this law would result in the slaughter of 16-year olds WHO ARE PREDISPOSED TO LEAD A LIFE OF CRIME AND ARE IN THE ACT OF COMMITTING ONE!!! Hardly any great loss, IMHO.

18 posted on 1/23/2004, 4:30:02 PM by Still Thinking
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To: farmfriend
Weird, I always thought the astrict was automatic

It used to. It stopped doing it automatically a few upgrades ago. I never asked why.

19 posted on 1/23/2004, 6:26:34 PM by RogueIsland
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To: farmfriend
More guns, more beer!
20 posted on 1/23/2004, 6:28:40 PM by Fester Chugabrew
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