Couple lose their home over $120 debt

The Sacramento Bee ^ | January 24, 2004 | Michael Kolber -- Bee Staff Writer

[Johnny_Cipher]

I read what your all saying but you don't seem to have the whole story

As the saying goes, "All I know is what I read in the papers" (or in this thread as the case may be).

When this all started happening both Mr. and Mrs.Radcliff where having health problems.

I'm genuinely not happy about that, but that's life. Both my wife and I have had past health problems, and I have a degenerative neurological condition that means I probably won't be here to see my granddaughter graduate from college in 10 years. But we manage to pay all our bills on time OR ASK FOR HELP if we need it (and we have needed it at times).

Now the H.O.A. claims to have provided the Radcliffs with all means at their disposal to notify the them of their lein. All except taking a 1(ONE) minute drive to knock on the door.

Was a representative of the HOA contractually obligated to do so?

They call themselves a HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIOIN which from the concept of what H.O.A.'s are supposed to represent means AN ASSOCIATION OF HOMEOWNERS COMING TOGETHER TO PRESERVE THE LIFE STYLE OF THE COMMUNITY AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER.

Is that language or similar specifically in the contract signed by the couple? Is the HOA contractually obligated to hold this couple's hand, say pretty please with sugar on top, and make sure they pay all their bills on time? Those are questions to which I would like some answers.

Where was the neighborly help in this situation?

Well, as you note below, the couple apparently didn't bother to tell their own flesh and blood about their alleged financial difficulties. What makes you think they were any more forthcoming with total strangers about them?

All the neighbors I've talked to totally support the Radcliffs.

Good for them. A pity that said "support" didn't include a good, stiff Dutch Uncle talk on the importance of protecting a lifetime investment like their home.

As far as the son's not helping. You can't help someone if you don't know they are in trouble. Especially when they don't even know they are in trouble.

Then why should the HOA or the neighbors be held responsible for the couple's plight?

Sorry, but the HOA are not the couple's pastors, parents, nannies, or attornies. They made a legal offer to the couple, the couple willingly accepted, and both parties signed a contract. The couple subsequently breached the contract and the HOA took the necessary action to protect its interests and the interests of all the other neighbors who somehow manage to pay their bills on time.

The power to avoid this entire mess was in the couple's hands. They blew it and are suffering the consequences as a result. I'm sorry about that but that's life. **** happens.

[Auntie Dem]

There may be a way the couple can save their house by using the IRS tax lien to their advantage. The tax lien was probably filed before the HOA claim (I don't think HOA's can get a priority position like property taxes), so the HOA would have to get in line based upon the recording of their judgment. If the IRS seized the house to enforce their lien, it would extinguish all claims filed after the IRS lien. The old couple would have their kids, or another straw-man be the winning bidder at the IRS sale. The IRS could only apply as much of the winning bid as was needed to satisfy their lien, the rest would go back to the taxpayer (the old couple). So the folks would then rent the house from their kids, until the HOA issue is cleared up, then they could buy it back from the kids with the money left over from the IRS sale.

A good lawyer could save this couple a lot of grief if they got moving on it right away. Also, some states have a "right of redemption" in certain foreclosure sales, which means the couple could buy the property back from the winning bidder for the amount of the bid plus interest at a statutory rate.

[RGSpincich]

The tax lien was paid from the proceeds of the sale because the IRS lien WAS in front of the HOA lien. The IRS is out of it.

[wgeorge2001]

Every neighborhood I have ever heard of has some basic covenants. Some even have fees. The fee we paid where I grew up maintained our common well, road, and community beach. The covenants also prevented people from having farm animals, businesses or junk cars in the yard. The covenants are not designed to make life miserable for all residents, but to protect the neighborhood and provide for upkeep of common property that make the neighborhood desirable. If an HOA is out of control or doing things the residents don't like, they can run for offices in it. It is THE definition of local government.e

These so called "covenants" are designed to incrementally destroy the rights of Americans to own personal property and to empower the liberal communist left wing fascists of America. They will allow or disallow you to do what you will or will not do with the little plot of land you buy. Why not just give the land to government and ask what you can and can not do with what you own? Why even buy it? It is foolish if one thinks they own something they buy when they give control to another who controls what they can and can not do with their property.
These HOA's decide what color your house can and can not be, whether you can put up political signs or not, whether you can fly the American Flag or not, whether you can plant a tree or not; etc.
That is not protection from a man who might paint his house purple and put junk cars in the yard; IT IS GIVING AWAY YOUR CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHTS to people who most probably make a good living from the maintenance fees they usually charge and hold you under bondage to rules they themselves make for you. Do you vote on your fief masters? And they STEAL your house when they can and could care less if you are living in cardboard boxes while they continue to scam and rule over the foolish who believe that they are doing what is good for everyone.
I suppose that you don't believe that? I and many others do believe that HOA's are the latest scam fascist left wing liberals use to manipulate homeowners and enrich themselves .
The LORD is good, He only is good. Wake up. We are in a war with Americans on the left who are much more dangerous that terrorists.

[HairOfTheDog]

LOL! When you put it like that I can really put it in perspective....

~jeesh~

[DLfromthedesert]

I'm a nurse. I guess, according to your analogy, I, too, should be picketed.

I'm sorry if you're too shallow if you can't discern the distinct difference between performing a service and outright screwing someone.

[Johnny_Cipher]

I'm a nurse. I guess, according to your analogy, I, too, should be picketed.

Uhhhh, that's nice. But what does "picketing" have to do with this discussion?

I'm sorry if you're too shallow if you can't discern the distinct difference between performing a service and outright screwing someone.

What duty does the HOA legally have to this couple besides what is explicitly spelled out in the contract? The couple "screwed" themselves - the HOA had nothing to do with it.

[DLfromthedesert]

You're the one who brought up picketing in your post #296.And I'm referring to people who buy real estate for cut rate prices that are doing the screwing.

[Johnny_Cipher]

You're the one who brought up picketing in your post #296.

Yes. My exact quote was:

"Guess I need to go picket hospitals, dentists, and towing services for being 'immoral'."

Its called "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd".

And I'm referring to people who buy real estate for cut rate prices that are doing the screwing.

So everybody who gets a good deal at an auction, sheriff's sale, or corner grocery store is "screwing" somebody? Sorry, but it doesn't wash. If there was any hint of impropriety with the transaction (illegal advance notice, restriction of bids, etc.), then I might agree with you. But from what I've read, the sale was open to the public and properly publicized per the letter of the law.

I think your major issue here is with the concept of capitalism in general. The buyer of the property did so to make money, which is still a freedom we have in this country.

[DLfromthedesert]

I believe in capitalism with a conscience. Legal is not necessarily moral, and my OPINION is these jackals are immoral.

[Johnny_Cipher]

I believe in capitalism with a conscience. Legal is not necessarily moral, and my OPINION is these jackals are immoral.

Good for you. My opinion is that the HOA and the new owner of the house are not and should not be expected to hold the couple's hand in their journey through life.

[JDAS1969]

It is people like you whose views are twisted to justify the immoral activities that the low-lifes of society use to take advantage of the laws written to protect the people of the U.S.A.
What it all boils down to is do you have Morals or a subconscious behavior that tells you it's O.K. to screw elderly people out of their lives savings

[Johnny_Cipher]

It is people like you whose views are twisted to justify the immoral activities that the low-lifes of society use to take advantage of the laws written to protect the people of the U.S.A.

Capitalism is "twisted" now, comrade? Do you speak English or Chinese?

What it all boils down to is do you have Morals or a subconscious behavior that tells you it's O.K. to screw elderly people out of their lives savings

What it all boils down to is that the couple "screwed" themselves. They should do better next time.

[DLfromthedesert]

I guess we cannot refer to the gentleman as a "comassionate" conservative. That would require a heart.

[Johnny_Cipher]

I guess we cannot refer to the gentleman as a "comassionate" conservative. That would require a heart.

I guess you can't use the spellchecker that Jim Robinson so thoughtfully provided for you either. That would require a brain.

[biffalobull]

Wolf Spiders. I swear a giant one in Phoenix chased a friend of ours was trying to kill it.

WOLF SPIDERS, who's afraid of a little old wolf spider?

Where I come from we have Guacamole birds that will carry away a three year old child.

[JDAS1969]

I know for a fact the radcliff's did send a check and they sent it back from the assesmant company, copper cove uses, because they assumed it was a $1.30 short , don't you think they should have cashed the check, and sent a notice / bill for the $1.30....I am thier daughter in law, and the Radcliffs are filing a case and going to sue them all, sue them all and sue them all! Te association and coast assesment did not follow many of the civil codes and we will prevail! They did NOT ignore the notices, and they had a contract with the IRS, for the Taxes, and they are currently still paying the IRS. All the facts have been the truth. Nothing has been left out. The Truth hurts hah? Maybe there are slugs out there willing to feed on seniors and with houses that have been paid for in cash,with no liens, or any morgage. the house was payed for in cash, free of any other issues..hopefully this will help you rethink what you have writen.

[KC Burke]

The payment refusal you mention was not in the original article, nor had it been mentioned when I made my comments at #27. As the news article was a jumping off point for comments about the general unworthyness of HOAs, my comments were general meant to show the other side, which may or may not reflect the actual specifics of this exact instance.

No one wishes your family members any harm. But to be honest, I have people I know (and value)that have no clue as to proper legal and business proceedures. I was assuming that such might have been a contributing factor here. If it wasn't, so much the better for you family-- the case for recovery won't be that impossible.