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Victor Davis Hanson: The Mind of Our Enemies, Sorting out all the agendas in Iraq.
NRO ^ | January 30, 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 01/30/2004 7:14:33 AM PST by Tolik

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1 posted on 01/30/2004 7:14:35 AM PST by Tolik
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To: seamole; xkaydet65; Fury; .cnI redruM; xsysmgr; yonif; SJackson; monkeyshine; Alouette; ...
Victor Davis Hanson moral clarity huge BUMP  [please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Victor Davis Hanson articles]

If you want to bookmark his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-victordavishanson/browse

His NRO archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

2 posted on 01/30/2004 7:18:07 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
bttt
3 posted on 01/30/2004 7:28:16 AM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: DoctorZIn
ping
4 posted on 01/30/2004 7:30:10 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.'--- Kahlil Gibran)
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To: Tolik
read later
5 posted on 01/30/2004 7:37:59 AM PST by dix
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To: Tolik
BTTT
6 posted on 01/30/2004 7:42:14 AM PST by knews_hound (Out of the NIC ,into the Router, out to the Cloud....Nothing but 'Net)
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To: Tolik
The Kurds — who time and again have proven themselves the most supportive of American efforts — know that Turkey will not tolerate an independent Kurdistan on its borders.

Ok, I don't know the region and this may be a silly thought. However, the Kurds have long sought independence. Always, always this is said to be unacceptable to Turkey, Iraq, and Iran for the same reasons that Polish independence was, prior to 1918, unacceptable to Germany, Austria, and Russia. But we do not, at the moment, particularly care what Iran thinks, and partition may be the best option for Iraq. That leaves Turkey.

So: have the Turks a price? Or alternatively, what about a Kurdish autonomous region within Turkey? The Kurds would presumably want some sort of guarantees that the Turks would behave themselves, but this should be possible to arrange; this is not the 16th century anymore, at least in Turkey. So again: have the Kurds a price?

7 posted on 01/30/2004 7:45:44 AM PST by sphinx
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To: sphinx
Gosh, rearranging other people's countries is fun ....
8 posted on 01/30/2004 7:46:24 AM PST by sphinx
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Notable quotes/excerpts:

We are reminded daily not of the birth of the first consensual government in the history of the Arab world, but only that nine months after the military defeat of the Baathists, there is still resistance to the American reconstruction; and that the number of American soldiers, killed in major combat operations and afterward, has now surpassed 500.

Things in the Middle East are hard precisely because the stakes there are gargantuan. But so are the rewards: The sanctuaries and patrons of murderers, suicide bombers, and terrorists are shrinking with the destruction of the Taliban and Saddam Hussein. Autocracies like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria are terrified of consensual government in Iraq precisely because they are aware of its implications for their own deprived citizens.

Meanwhile millions — from Libya and Pakistan to North Korea and Iran — watch intently. They wonder whether this new United States is about to run out of gas and return to the old appeasement of the last twenty years, [...  or] is this new — and often unpredictable — United States going to completely change the rules of engagement, to prevent the conditions that would lead to another September 11?

 

9 posted on 01/30/2004 7:53:05 AM PST by Tolik
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Notable quotes/excerpts:

We are winning a difficult peace. It is not surprising that we have made scores of mistakes, since nation rebuilding in the Middle East has no recent pedigree — not targeting and storming into the Sunni Triangle from the very beginning, distrusting and defaming competent and patriotic Iraqi exiles, allowing thousands to stream in from Iran, dismantling the Iraqi army and police, restraining Americans in war from harming vital infrastructure only to allow Iraqis to ruin it in peace, lax security on captured weapons caches, keeping Iraqis in the shadows while we spoke about their reform, and trying to create a political utopia when the avoidance of tyranny was our real chore.

Surely someone in the administration should have been explaining to the American people daily the historical nature of our victory, the critical issues now in play worldwide, and the humane nature of our sacrifice — if only to offer some counterweight to the monotonous negativism of National Public Radio, Nightline, the New York Times, and the Democratic contenders. Instead we have had mostly silence — reticence seen not as Olympian magnanimity, but rather as a sign of weakness that only emboldened critics and fueled the hysteria.

Yet throughout this tumultuous year, what amazes is not that we made errors, or major blunders even — but how quickly we reacted, adjusted, and learned from our mistakes. So we press on, learning as we go, combining power with justice, determined to leave behind something better than we found. We are comforted by knowing that for all the current yelling from Democratic candidates, our own intelligentsia, and the European mainstream, this has not been a war of conquest or exploitation, but something altogether different — a needed effort that, if we see it through, will end up doing a great deal of good for everyone involved.

Our efforts in Iraq to remove a genocidal murderer and inaugurate democracy are not a "quagmire," but one of the brightest moments in recent American history — and we need not be ashamed to say that, again and again and again.


10 posted on 01/30/2004 8:05:00 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
>Autocracies like Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Syria are terrified of consensual government in Iraq precisely because they are aware of its implications for their own deprived citizens.

Maybe they're smarter
than we give them credit for.
Maybe they look at

us, and realize
"consensual government"
gave us eight long years

of Clinton. Just think
what the "consensus" choice there
might put in office...

11 posted on 01/30/2004 8:06:49 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: Tolik
[Islamacist/terrorist-types] wonder whether this new United States is about to run out of gas

The US citizenry need only to hand more power to the Democrats to slip-slide into a self-phophesying reality. Dims injecting all this quagmire-type rhetoric directly translates to lost American lives. Treasonous!

HF

12 posted on 01/30/2004 8:12:51 AM PST by holden
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To: theFIRMbss
I would take not 8 but 80 years of Clinton versus 1 year under Saudi Arabia.

You are falling into what Hanson and Lee Harris use as their major point lately: the West got into a habit of requiring perfection out of itself. It's not possible. It's called Utopia precisely because its a neverland.

I take chaos of democracy versus authoritarian order anytime. Its frustrating, you bet! But nothing exist that is better. I can't stand Clinton, but I would not want to live under Putin or any Saudi princes.
13 posted on 01/30/2004 8:17:36 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
> I take chaos of democracy versus authoritarian order anytime. Its frustrating, you bet!

Well, my post was half
tongue-in-cheek, but the point stands --
democracy works

pretty much only
when citizens have schooling
and shared common goals.

In the Middle East,
the "masses" have no schooling,
and are so split up

in warring factions
that "common goals" seems to mean
they all want to kill.

I am just not sure
democracy can work well
with those citizens.

14 posted on 01/30/2004 8:24:42 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: Tolik
BUMP FOR LATER READ
15 posted on 01/30/2004 8:27:18 AM PST by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: theFIRMbss
I see your point and agree.

I think that Iraq was chosen as a weakest link in part because Iraqi looked like the least brainwashed, more entrepreneurial, less hapless than other obvious targets like Saudis and Syrians. When mullacrats in Iran finally fall, Iran also has a chance to spring up democracy.

But basically, as Hanson says, it does not need to become a perfect democracy: "Success in Iraq cannot be measured by how much it resembles the Connecticut countryside next month, but instead by whether — in two or three years — it is a country that no longer invades others, promotes terrorists, kills its own citizens, and uses petrol dollars to acquire a strategic arsenal to threaten the West."
I think its a realistic goal.
16 posted on 01/30/2004 8:39:15 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
Bumping an excellent article.
17 posted on 01/30/2004 10:20:20 AM PST by Grampa Dave (GW is driving every rat in America into a deeper insanity, 24/7/365!)
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To: Tolik
Outstanding article bump!
18 posted on 01/30/2004 11:26:23 AM PST by RottiBiz
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To: Tolik
Surely someone in the administration should have been explaining to the American people daily the historical nature of our victory, the critical issues now in play worldwide, and the humane nature of our sacrifice — if only to offer some counterweight to the monotonous negativism of National Public Radio, Nightline, the New York Times, and the Democratic contenders. Instead we have had mostly silence — reticence seen not as Olympian magnanimity, but rather as a sign of weakness that only emboldened critics and fueled the hysteria.

This is a major complaint of mine as well. The lack of eloquence, indeed the ongoing inarticulateness, in this administration is a critical flaw and a failure of leadership. Leaders must articulate the goals of the mission. It is a core function of the job. GWB, with certain exceptions in major policy addresses, just doesn't seem to have it in him to articulate his message day in and day out.

19 posted on 01/30/2004 12:22:06 PM PST by beckett
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To: beckett
Many intellectuals even having conservative inclinations just can't bring themselves to trust Bush for this reason alone: "ongoing inarticulateness", as you well said. I agree that this is indeed a critical flow.

When watching some high level performers, ballet, figure skating, violinist, gymnast, pick one, you forget how difficult the task is, and trust completely, that they won't fall or stumble, or make a mistake. When cheering for somebody less skillful, we hope for the best, but not for a second forget the difficulty of the task and that a "fall" is possible.

Same is with Bush. I cheer for him, and would not want to be in his place. But every time I see him in the press-conference, I afraid him to stumble. I think that it makes him as a "one of us" for many people, but turns off many others. Intellectuals don't see him as an equal mind (I think they are wrong) and many others just want to see a perfection in their leader.
20 posted on 01/30/2004 1:06:46 PM PST by Tolik
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