Hundreds listen to [Michael] Moore politics

The Grand Rapids Press ^ | Sunday, February 01, 2004 | Ted Roelofs

[FourPeas]

Michael Moore has never been afraid to offend.

He didn't disappoint Saturday night in an appearance at Fountain Street Church in Grand Rapids, as more than 2,000 people jammed inside to hear him take on President Bush, Rush Limbaugh, war with Iraq -- and just about everything else on the political right.

Several hundred more were turned away when the church ran out of space in its sanctuary and overflow rooms. They came to hear the brash, outspoken author and award-winning documentary filmmaker, who is also famous for denouncing Bush in March before a national television audience at the Oscars.

"Why aren't we in charge?" Moore asked. "We are the majority in this country, not those crazies standing out there on Fountain Street," referring to a small group that gathered briefly with American flags to protest his appearance.

In the course of a speech that lasted nearly 90 minutes, Moore faulted the political left in America for being splintered and disorganized.

Dressed in blue jeans, a sloppy sweater and tennis shoes, he urged the largely youthful crowd to vote in November's presidential election and to identify "10 slackers that you are personally going to take to the polls with you."

Moore also repeated a line he uttered a couple weeks ago at a campaign appearance for retired General Wesley Clark, in which he called President Bush a "deserter." It refers to allegations that Bush skipped out on months of service to the Texas Air National Guard in the 1970s.

"I want to see that debate between the general and the deserter," Moore said, to loud applause.

He drew his loudest ovation when he said the nation should never send its young to war "unless it's for the self-defense of the country."

Among those cheering for Moore was Emily Hogan, 23, of Cedar Springs, a social worker who considers herself a big fan. In her view, Moore is one of the few who dares to stand up to the powerful and conservative forces that help elect Bush president.

"I have all his books," Hogan said. "I have all his videos."

Of his controversial speech at the Oscars, Hogan gave Moore credit for speaking up.

"I think he deserves applause for that. You need to stand up to something when you disagree with it. That's American."

Hogan thought the sizable turnout proves West Michigan is less conservative than many believe.

That's not quite the view of Michigan GOP chairwoman Betsy DeVos, who took a few swings at Moore prior to his appearance.

"He's free to go wherever he is invited. That freedom is a privilege I'm not sure he values very much," DeVos said.

"Michael Moore is a distasteful character who has made a fortune off of peddling fear, ignorance and hatred while posing as a self-righteous populist. At his core, he is an elitist and a propagandist who thinks that he ... should tell people how do business and live their lives."

As for his attacks on Bush, DeVos said they "reflect his juvenile and incoherent leftism."

Moore, 49, has been linked to populist and left-wing causes since at least the 1980s, when he edited the Michigan Voice in Flint.

He graduated from print to film with the 1989 release of "Roger &Me," a satiric documentary about the loss of jobs in Flint and his relentless pursuit of GM chief Roger Smith for an interview.

He reprised the tactic in "Bowling for Columbine," in which he tracked down an aging Charlton Heston to confront the actor and National Rifle Association president on gun control.

It won an Oscar for Moore in March, when he stepped out on the stage to denounce President Bush and the war with Iraq: "We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you."

A pastor at Fountain Street said his appearance is in keeping with a long tradition at the church of controversial speakers, from Eleanor Roosevelt to black activist Stokely Carmichael.

"We could have filled the sanctuary twice," said senior pastor Judith Walker-Riggs. She said she hoped the appearance would spark interest in the political process in a group that has opted out of a recent elections.

"Michael is so popular with the generations that have historically not been voting," she said.

Before his speech, Moore went outside and spoke to the hundreds of people who were turned away when the doors were closed.

"That's usually the group I'm in, the tardy group," Moore quipped.

[FourPeas]

Hundreds? Ooooh, I'm impressed.

Also check out TomasUSMC's after-FReep report here

[FourPeas]

ping!

I read your after-FReep report and thought you'd enjoy the Press's "official" report.

[Rocko]

Michael Moore is a big fat idiot.

[LaraCroft]

Amazing when hating America is considered patriotic, and holding an American flag makes you a crazy.

[prion]

A pastor at Fountain Street said his appearance is in keeping with a long tradition at the church of controversial speakers, from Eleanor Roosevelt to black activist Stokely Carmichael.

Let me guess...Unitarian?

[FourPeas]

It considers itself "non-denominational liberal". Oddly enough, I believe it used to be a Baptist church until it underwent it's "conversion".

[Drango]

Remember it's only the religious right that is used pejoratively in the news.

[Archangelsk]

That's not quite the view of Michigan GOP chairwoman Betsy DeVos

Before Betsy gets on her high horse let's remind everyone that she is part of the DeVos family and the greatest scam business ever perpetuated on the American landscape, Amway.

Me, you, 6, 4, 2. What a crock.

[FourPeas]

Here it is (from their History Page at www.fountainstreet.org):

Fountain Street Church, located in downtown Grand Rapids, is a liberal church with Protestant roots. As a liberal church, its congregants espouse no creed, but worship services do follow a traditional Christian calendar of Advent, Christmas and Easter celebrations. Less traditional observances include an annual Halloween service and "Reverence for Life" Sunday, where pets attend church with their families. Worshippers come from many religious traditions and are joined in a church family which considers the religious quest to be a lifelong journey of personal discovery.

Founded as the First Baptist Church of Grand Rapids, it evolved to a non-denominational, non-creedal church starting as early as the late 1800's, becoming completely independent by the 1960's. Nearly 2000 members strong, the church today is one of the largest free churches in the country, owned, funded and totally governed by its members.

The Romanesque Basilica was dedicated in 1924 after an earlier Gothic sanctuary was destroyed by fire in 1917. The building is adorned by both religious and secular symbolism. Stained glass windows, tessarae mosaics, Italian carved marble and murals depict Biblical characters and leaders in American history and science.

[sauropod]

""I have all his books," Hogan said. "I have all his videos."

Mommy, make it stop!

[FourPeas]

Betsy DeVos is one of the best things that ever happened to the Republican party in Michigan.

[Columbine]

If he's so popular and draws such huge crowds why isn't he speaking in a 50,000 seat stadium?

Oh, that's right. 100s might look a little sparse in there.

[FourPeas]

""I have all his books," Hogan said. "I have all his videos."

...so THAT'S who lives at the public dump.

[thesummerwind]

he urged the largely youthful crowd to vote in November's presidential election and to identify "10 slackers that you are personally going to take to the polls with you."

This is just what all of us must do! We all have to find other possible voters, inform them calmly, yet forcefully and factually, to help save the country and win this election.

It is our love for the country versus Moore and his ilk's hatred, and their hatred is relentless and very strong. Please, don't sit back.

[sauropod]

"As a liberal church, its congregants espouse no creed..."

'Nuff said.

[prion]

Wow! Hahaha...that sounds like the Church of Glowing Unicorn Magic and Dolphin Love Energy or something.

[wizardoz]

What's funny is that they really wonder, "Why aren't we in charge?"

[munozjoe]

Yeah, hundreds, nice. If it was only hundreds altogether. I do a lot of business abroad, and Michael Moore is the one American they like to mention pretty much everywhere. They know him in Britain, they know him in Canada, he is popular in Germany, and I even saw children wearing Moore T-shirts in Asia. I tell you, if we do not manage to improve our image this guy is going to ruin it. Unless the democrats win the elections and they will all think that the big conspiracy has ended. That guy is dangerous, and I bet his next documentary will be a success in Toronto again.

[Capt. Tom]

Hundreds? Ooooh, I'm impressed.

Did you miss this:
He didn't disappoint Saturday night in an appearance at Fountain Street Church in Grand Rapids, as more than 2,000 people jammed inside to hear him take on President Bush, Rush Limbaugh, war with Iraq -- and just about everything else on the political right.

[Mears]

I agree,a liberal church that espouses no creed is a crock.

The touchy,feely,politically correct,white wine drinking crowd makes my hair stand on end.

They usually call themselves all-inclusive but God help you if you ever,ever do or say something with which they don't agree. I doubt if many of their members bowl,drink beer,smoke,and live in trailer parks.

[netmilsmom]

Amway was a pyramid scheme but no one forced into it. As with anything, it was free will that brought people in. I bought Amway products from my sister. They were ok. I told her ahead of time not to get into it. She was going to get rich quick. It never happened.

That being said, Dick and Betsy DeVos have been working for MI and the MI education system. Please see http://www.glep.org

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

"I want to see that debate between the general and the deserter," Moore said

A general who can't follow orders and is fired for running and whining to Madeleine Albright whenever he didn't like his orders, ought to be right up Fatboy's alley. No wonder he likes Clark.

[JimSEA]

an annual Halloween service

Fitting! Why didn't they ask Moore to this service.

[sauropod]

Heh. But they know so much more than us.

Just ask them ;-).

[BillyBoy]

>> Hundreds listen to [Michael] Moore politics

That must explain why Weasley Clark, Ralph Nader, Matt Gonzalez, and the rest of the socialist loonies he endorsed are polling so well...

[lonestar]

...the greatest scam business ever perpetuated on the American landscape, Amway.

I never sold Amway but I used it for years--by choice. It doesn't fit the Ponzi scheme so what are you talking about? I don't know anything about Amway except I liked their laundry detergent.

[yankeedog]

Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

[JoJo Gunn]

A great big Kumbaya miserable failure bump.

Michael miserable failureMoore

[MarkL]

"Reverence for Life" Sunday, where pets attend church with their families

Hmmm... For a moment there, I thought that they might actually oppose abortion...

Mark

[3catsanadog]

Curious as to the denomination of the Fountain Street Church. If it happens to be Universalist Unitarian, I won't be surprised. And I also notice that their "controversial" speakers lean to the liberal left.

[3catsanadog]

Nearly 2000 members strong, the church today is one of the largest free churches in the country, owned, funded and totally governed by its members.

And, coincidentally, that's the same number that came to see Michael Moore.

Sheesh, it's reported as if thousands from all over the city came to see Michael Moore, the big fat idiot.

[Dan from Michigan]

Hogan thought the sizable turnout proves West Michigan is less conservative than many believe.

It reminds me of what the democrats said about my county. "IT's not Republican. It's 1/3 GOP, 1/3 Dem, 1/3 independent". One rep I know in response said "In that case I got all the republicans, all the independents, and almost 1/2 of the democrats!!!!"

As for 'hundreds', Kent County had over 500,000 people. We got 700-800 people to see Alan Keyes(paying $50 to RTL), with a county of 170,000. Could Keyes draw over a thousand there? I think so...

[Dan from Michigan]

Bwhahahah. That's about right too.

[peteram]

Amway was a pyramid scheme but no one forced into it. As with anything, it was free will that brought people in. I bought Amway products from my sister. They were ok. I told her ahead of time not to get into it. She was going to get rich quick. It never happened.

Corporate America is a pyramid scheme, the federal government is a pyramid scheme. Anything with a hierarchal configuration is a pyramid. The difference between Amway and corproate America is that in corporations you have to wait until someone either dies, gets fired or goes to jail before you have an opportunity to advance in the company. In a system like Amway, you CAN go as far as your motivation, effort and hard work will take you. You can even go further than the person who brought you in. You can't do THAT in corporate america.

An ILLEGAL pyramid is one where you will NEVER do as good as the person who "sponsored" you. In most legitimate direct sales/network marketing business models (like Amway, Tupperware, Mary Kay), you very well can. You need to put in the EFFORT (if you think you will get rich quick, you are wrong from the beginning) before you see the fruits. These models work, IF you work them.

[FourPeas]

See #9 for Fountain Street Church's description of itself.

[Andy from Beaverton]

I'm amazed how no one in the press links the hypocrisy of a Michael Moore endorsement of Wesley Clark to the Kosovo War. Moore was ahuge opponent of the war. In Bowling For Columbine he links the Kosovo war to the shootings at the school.

[clintonh8r]

The Church of No Hassles...

[netmilsmom]

I agree with you!

[cyncooper]

Hundreds outside who couldn't get in.

The article plainly states there were 2000 inside.

Yes, I'm concerned.

[cyncooper]

It says 2000 jammed inside, hundreds out. I would not poo-poo the Michael Moore effect on the election.

I despise him, but pretending he doesn't have a following that believes what he says won't help in defeating his message of lies and hate.

[spacewarp]

"Why aren't we in charge?" Moore asked. "We are the majority in this country, not those crazies standing out there on Fountain Street," referring to a small group that gathered briefly with American flags to protest his appearance.

Mr. Moore is delusional. Fat, balding liars who spout of on topics they have no possible understanding of because their liberal politics get in the way of reality are not the majority in this country. Rational people who have a belief in less government, not more is the majority.

Sheesh. And they gave that moron an Oscar. It should have been for fiction, not documentary. Since he spliced and hacked his way through interviews to get his liberal screed across.

[Jim Cane]

If you put Michael Moore and Al Franken in a padded room together, which would be the bigger, fatter idiot?

And can we get that room soundproofed, so that we don't have to find out?

[Archangelsk]

Amway was a pyramid scheme but no one forced into it.

You're right nobody has ever been forced into it, they were all conned.

[spacewarp]

One of my nephews is extremely athsmatic and the only laundry detergent that doesn't cause him to get sick when he puts his clothes on is the Amway detergent. Don't know why. I guess it's because they cut costs so much by not adding in all the stuff that makes him sick.

[peteram]

Thanks. I apologize. I think I should have directed my comments more towards Archangelsk. As you probably guessed, I participate, and am doing very well in a direct marketing business, and it bugs me sometimes when people spread mis-information about these types of business model saying that they are scams. The are based on a person's level of motivation and desire to succeed. Not everybody has this, so not everybody does well.

But thanks again for speaking up for the DeVos'. I think they are a really great family doing a lot of good things. Anyway, to continue this type of discussion would require a new thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

Have a great day
FReegards,
Pete

[peteram]

You're right nobody has ever been forced into it, they were all conned.

How?

[Archangelsk]

It doesn't fit the Ponzi scheme so what are you talking about?

Bwahahaha, another "I'm a supporter, but I never did it". Sorry, lonestar, but everyone I've ever met who says that is ashamed to admit that they were in, got scammed, spent an un-Godly amount of money on 'support material', got disillusioned, imploded and got out. Now I know you're going to hang your hat on the 1977 ruling, but guess what, that's just more smoke and mirrors from Scamway and your upline.

That being said, I'm certainly glad you got out, but there's still some residual brainwashing left over.

[peteram]

spent an un-Godly amount of money on 'support material', got disillusioned, imploded and got out.

Did you go to college? Did you have to buy books when you did? How much did the books cost? did they help you to learn your profession? Are you a millionaire yet? What happened?

These Support Materials are part of the educational system. Not everybody that get's into a business knows what they are doing. So they need education - just like college.

If they imploded and got out - that's only because they were not willing to put the effort into it. That's OK, because not everyone is made to own/run this type of business model.

[Archangelsk]

How?

YOU GOTTA HAVE A DREAM! You're still in, right? What PV level? 2500? 4000? Direct is just around the corner, right? Go listen to another tape willya and when you finally implode you'll thank me for it. Remember, less than 1% of all distributors make the illusion of Direct and nearly all Directs flame out.

[peteram]

What my PV level is not your concern. If you believe that the business is a scam, that's your right. I will tell you that my family and I have gotten more out of this business that corporate america(with it's failed pension plans, 401K's and dis-loyalty to their employees) has ever done for us.

No, Mr. Arch - I'm in this for the long haul (because that's what it takes). And yes - YOU GOTTA HAVE A DREAM!!!!! Because what else would motivate a person to step out of their comfort zone to talk to other people about an opportunity that has become so misunderstood because of people like you?