Losing America's Livelihood

The New American ^ | 1/26/04 | William Jasper

[Protagoras]

Pretty quiet for someone who claims to want to state his own opinions. Maybe you don't want to do that after all.

[Consort]

Any more tantrums?

[Protagoras]

That's the whole point of the slogan: "It's the voters, stupid." Yes? No?

I never heard that particular slogan, so I'm not sure what the point is. But if you are making a case for the wisdom of the electorate, remember it cuts both ways. That if Bush loses, they will be correct simply by being the voters. And Bill Clinton was AOK because he beat Bush the first and Bob Doleful.

[spacewarp]

Hmmmm. Maybe I should borrow one from your playbook and claim Consort fatigue. Then I don't actually have to have a point. I just have to say I'm done with you and dismiss you as you so casually dismiss everyone else. But, no. Looking back at your posts, this topic must really be hurting you. It appears to be the most typing you've actually done in the last year. And the most approaching thought (considering most of your posts are either "< topic > fatigue" or "< author > fatigue" or "< subject > fatigue". And you have the unmitigated gall to tell me to grow up? You're something else.

I bring in every topic I post an attempt at a reasonable discussion. Even if it isn't what you want to hear, it is what I care to say about it in an attempt to be reasonable. That IS grown up. That's why, unlike a lot of the people who on this forum go against the GOP don't continuing posting shortly after. I don't get down in the gutter, I don't call names, I don't slash and smear, I don't curse, I don't threaten. I try to use reason. Believe me, with people like you on the prowl, the gutter looks quite tempting.

Now, if you wish to carry on a clean discussion on the issue, fine, but otherwise, stop with the attack posts. At least, on this thread, you're doing better than your average one line. If nothing else, I'm getting you to think. That's important. Maybe that mind may come back soon.

Paul

[spacewarp]

As you may see, I am not having a tantrum. I'm trying to use logic and reason to respond to you. You are using emotion and insult. That is the typical debate between a conservative (me) and a liberal (you).

You don't have any idea what's going on in this country, do you? What is your stance on the following:

1) The illegal immigration issue?

2) The Prescription Drug plan?

3) The Patriot Act?

4) The Department of Education?

5) The welfare departments (bonus points if you can tell me how many there are)?

6) The borders and border situation?

7) The IRS/Flat tax issue?

8) The protectionist governments that are assaulting our industries one at a time?

9) The UN and why is it still in New York?

10) The non-prosecution of the Clinton mafia who tried to destroy our country?

11) The Senate Intelligence Committee Republicans cowardly ignoring the content of the Democrat memos while happily roasting their own to allow the Demo's to be happy?

12) The Fillibusters, and why has there been no motion to bring in cots for everyone?? That's a REAL fillabuster.

If you can't intelligently talk to at least ONE of those, then don't bother to insult me again. I can address each and every one of them rationally, and have at times.

Paul

[Willie Green]

No, I'm denying that you have any.

So you have a pompously arrogant and despotic attitude.
So what? We've already established that fact.

Let's do it this way, one at a time, then we can nail down those opinions.

OK, fine by me.

1) Do you support any minimum wage laws?

No, I do not. I believe that market forces of supply and demand should determine wages and benefits.
However, I also support policies that balance the conflicting interests of business and labor. To that end, I am opposed to flooding the labor market with cheap, immigrant labor and/or child labor. Furthermore, I also support workers' rights to freedom of association and organization to negotiate contracts on their own behalf.

[Willie Green]

Pretty quiet for someone who claims to want to state his own opinions. Maybe you don't want to do that after all.

I answered you. But as I explained previously to you, chasing you around in rhetorical circles is extremely low on my priority list. I have more productive tasks to tend to first.

[Protagoras]

However, I also support policies that balance the conflicting interests of business and labor.

Generality which says nothing at all specific. It basically describes a belief that government should use force to acheive what it conciders "balance" between two consenting parties who do not desire government intervention.

2) Do you support government set prices?

[Protagoras]

I have more productive tasks to tend to first.

Running around the internet advocating a cult worship of a failed philosphy and it's discarded whacko leader.

[Willie Green]

It basically describes a belief that government should use force to acheive what it conciders "balance" between two consenting parties who do not desire government intervention.

Not at all. Through the very act of incorporation, Government extends investors the economic advantage of limited personal liability for the financial obligations of the artificial corporate entity that is created. In a system of checks and balances, it is also necessary to extend the same right of organization to individual employees, thus bringing some semblance of parity of economic leverage to contract negotiations.

2) Do you support government set prices?

Not at all.

[Willie Green]

Running around the internet advocating a cult worship of a failed philosphy and it's discarded whacko leader.

Irrelevant personal attack.
Not very skilled at discussing issues with somebody who expresses their own opinions, are you?

[Consort]

I never heard that particular slogan, so I'm not sure what the point is.

I made it up. It means that the electorate gets the credit or blame for the state of the nation.

[Consort]

Maybe I should borrow one from your playbook and claim Consort fatigue.

And you could try being original. What did I say, so far, that is inaccurate?

[Protagoras]

Through the very act of incorporation

Sorry, nice try at injecting corporations, I said consenting parties.

thus bringing some semblance of parity of economic leverage to contract negotiations.

So creating "parity" through force is the rightful role of government?

2) Do you support government set prices? Not at all.

So you oppose the federal Reserve. And oppose usury laws. And you support uniform tariffs on all goods from all countries?

[Protagoras]

Irrelevant personal attack.

You started the personal attacks a long time ago, now is not the time to whine.

And my skill at discussing things with you is adequate to the task.

[Protagoras]

Well, that's one take on it. But it doesn't tell the whole story.

[Consort]

As you may see, I am not having a tantrum.

Yes you are, and you're a glutton for punishment.

I can address each and every one of them rationally, and have at times.

So have I and so have many others here. You have nothing over anyone else....get that through your head.

[Consort]

But it doesn't tell the whole story.

True, but what does?

[Havoc]

Unless you're a union thug.

Union guys are losing their jobs too. Lot of good them unions do...

[Willie Green]

Sorry, nice try at injecting corporations, I said consenting parties.

As artificial entities, Corporations are "consenting parties".
When discussing economic matters, it is necessary to recognize that Government extends them priviled advantages over individuals.

So creating "parity" through force is the rightful role of government?

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Government is the institution by which our elected representatives seek to peacefully resolve the conflicting interests of our citizenry. It is an imperfect process.

So you oppose the federal Reserve.

Our domestic economy suffered ups and downs both before and after its establishment.
I suspect that its importance and necessity is greatly exagerated.

And oppose usury laws.

They're largely ineffective.

And you support uniform tariffs on all goods from all countries?

Yes I do.