Episcopal protest hits collection plate

Washington Times ^ | 2/10/04 | Julia Duin

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

That "Anglican Use" Catholic parish in Texas looks very interesting.

My beef with American Catholicism is its oily liberalism and neo-modernism (which mainly comes from secular modern American cultural sources - the 1960s). The Catholic Church in England is actually quite interesting and closer to medieval tradition.

Interestingly, Anglican and Episcopalian priests who convert to Rome can remain married. It would be good if conservative Anglicans and Catholics set aside their differences to cooperate more. Particularly on cultural and moral controversies. Like...pro-life and defending marriage and the family. Perhaps we shall live to see that.

[MissouriForBush]

Can't argue with you because I agree with you.

(For me, my definition of "mainstream" is the America that I grew up with where the Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Roman Catholics and Episcopalians alike all espoused and upheld traditional values. That America no longer exists.)

[Proud_texan]

You might want to check out the the Episcopal Missionary Church.

Canons are here and will give you a good idea of the EMC traditional values.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I'm a descendant of three Anglican bishops (with Episcopalian cousins).

[Proud_texan]

You have much more tradition than I do, I'm first generation but after getting pushed out of the ECUSA a long time ago the EMC was like going home again. It's a very small movement, only 45 or so parishes, but wonderfully traditional.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Great link. Thanks.

I've always found this interesting:

http://anglicanpck.org/seminary/about/ St. Joseph of Arimathea Anglican Theological College

[biblewonk]

Imagine collections at the Chapel if we were in this situation.

[Guillermo]

Actually, one pays tithes.

Above that, is when it becomes an offering.

[newgeezer]

Imagine collections at the Chapel if we were in this situation.

"Imagine" is all I could do if there was a Sodomite in charge. I suspect nearly all the collections would become imaginary, too. ;-)

[biblewonk]

A closer parallel would be if Emmaus hired a sodomite teacher. Our reaction would be a little more mild.

[newgeezer]

A closer parallel would be if Emmaus hired a sodomite teacher. Our reaction would be a little more mild.

That might be closer but, I'm not sure. We aren't legally bound to Emmaus Bible College. We don't take orders from there, it doesn't own our real estate, we aren't contractually obligated to send it a percentage of our 'revenues,' etc., etc.

If Emmaus were to do anything like that, we could simply turn away and move on. Conversely, the local Episcopalians have to jump through a LOT of hoops to sever ties to their Sodomite bishop.

[PattonReincarnated]

>> Conservative Episcopalians say the budget reduction is a direct result of the Nov. 2 consecration of V. Gene Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire, the first openly homosexual ordained ...

I am a non-practicing Episcopalian. I have to disagree with the slant on this article. I believe that budget reductions are much more than the gay bishop issue. I think that for many Episcopalians, the homosexual Robinson issue was a triggering point, and budgetary matters will only become worse in the future.

I stopped going to my local parish church several months after 9/11. This is long before Robinson became an issue. Certainly there have been problems with queers in the church before. But I liked my priest. He did a great job, but his job was always on the line. There was a significant number or people within the parish that thought our priest was too conservative. This was despite his efforts to grow the parish. And the people did come. The youth program was reinvigorated. Many new families were joining the church, and many long lost members were finding their way back to the church. Then 9/11 happened. At that time, Presiding Bishop Griswold went out of his way to appease terrorists. He made a number of comments that where anti-Bush, anti-War, and anti-American. I can handle some of the anti-War comments coming from the head of the church, but the anti-American, hate-America type of comments I could not abide. His words were divisive. This certainly divided me from the church. But like they say in politics, all politics are local … it’s also true in church.

Concurrently with Presiding Bishop Griswold’s comments, our parish was changing. With the growth that we sustained in the last several years, we talking about expanding out church facilities, adding parking lots, and getting a couple additional priests. And the priests did come and I left. My wife was on the selection committee for the new priests. The stories that she could tell are amazing. In the interviewing process there was everything from those that did not believe that Christ died for our sins, to others that think the Bible is just a collection of faire tales. However, there were qualified priests. The selection committee selected two priests over several more qualified. This caused a major split in our parish. One priest was to be hired to run the youth program. When I asked my wife about him, about all she could say is the guy likes fantasy football. I probed deeper. I talked to others on the selection committee. This guy had no substance whatsoever, and I guess the fantasy football thing was the only thing that could remember. As it turns out, on the first Sunday after our new priest was hired, he arrived at church with his former wife. He spoke about how great it was still to be friends with his divorced wife, and how she will be attending each Sunday and would be involved in other church events. This was the guy running the youth program, BUT NOT WITH MY CHILDREN. In a few weeks following, I explained my position to many people in the church and then my family and I left the church.

This was at a time when my life was deeply affected by 9/11. That is another story in itself, but I won’t dig that up. I needed a church to turn to deal with some issues. I found a church that was unwilling and unable to help me, but completely willing to pervert the minds of my children. Today, membership at my local parish is at an all time low. All of the new families that joined the church have left. The lost members are lost again. Needless to say, the expansion plans have been cancelled. I assume that similar things have occurred throughout the Liberal Episcopal Church.

[newgeezer]

The funds need to drop a great deal more than that.

I suppose many of the more "conservative" Episcopalians are wrestling with the thought of reneging on their pledge card obligations.

[biblewonk]

I suppose many of the more "conservative" Episcopalians are wrestling with the thought of reneging on their pledge card obligations.

They should!

[MissAmericanPie]

It is a shame that the short fall was such a small amount and points up what moral trouble there is among everyday people in their ability to make moral judgements and stands.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

And here...(ping)

[mariejlt]

On Palm Sunday 2003 I took my 19 year old nephew to church with me .... he was in his dress uniform.... The priest proceeded to embark upon a sermon with the theme ,"Jesus would never be fighting a war in Iraq"
I wanted to throw the hymnal at the priest before he finished ... After 32 years in the Episcopal Church I had finally had enough... I removed my $4000 tithe ... I have spent most of my life working at church, so this is not easy for me... Part of me wants to stay and fight ,but there is too much wrong ,beginning with legalese that give the bishops total control. They can decide to confirm the marriage of two donkeys and no one would be able to stop them

[PattonReincarnated]

>> Part of me wants to stay and fight

Me too. But I would want to follow the lead of Jesus - just like when He cleared the temple. I'm not up for that, so I just left the church.