Posted on 02/21/2004 2:16:45 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
Bears repeating.
I had already reached this conclusion independently from my reading of ancient historians (unfortunately in translation), but it's nice to see it confirmed.
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
18:25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
18:27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
18:28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
It has to be the latter. G-d is G-d. Judaism cannot do something to change Him.
I could not put my finger on why accepting homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality could change civilization. My 12-year-old son was asking me about it. This article is a great explanation, but NOT meant for him. I guess I shall have to figure out how to sum all this up for a 12-year-old now.
I wonder what Dennis would say about how homosexuals should live today. Especially those who are religious. I know that some choose to put aside their orientations and live hetero, married lives. What does he say about the others? I am guessing that he would say they should be tolerated as a non-mainstream way of life and that we should always keep our focus on married love and bringing up the next generation. Hard to do that in this day of no passing judgement. It seems to slide either towards "Queer Eye" (glorification) or "queerbaiting" (prejudice). Hard to have it right down the middle, but I suppose right down the middle would be what's best for civilization.
Maybe gays need to accept their rightful places as extras in the play of Western Civ, enjoy their roles, and forget about trying out for the lead roles.
Myself, I'd rather stick to strictly no reference to either religion or the Bible. In my experience with homosexuals, I find that no matter what they say, none are so close to their faith that they will abandon their "orientation" just because their faith bans it.
So using the Bible as authority communicates about as well as pinching your lips together when you talk. My opinion, here's as many good arguments based on simple observation of material reality.
Lost in all the pseudo-intellectual garbage of this piece is the REAL reason Judaism rejects homosexuality (as stated above): it was a practice of the idolatrous nations, specifically Canaan, that Jews were instructed by G-d to avoid. Jews have always had a hard time keeping to G-d's strict rules, and have frequently had portions of the community slide into idolatry (hence the whole civil war against the Hellenized Jews which is the story of Chanukah).
Nowhere does G-d say that homosexuals, as people, are evil. Nowhere is female homosexuality addressed. Obviously, there is no problem with those of the homosexual persuasion, so it is utterly irrelevant whether homosexual drives are genetic, chosen, cultural, or whatnot. The problem is only one of idolatry, and since male homosexuality was part of the idol worship in the land, it was prohibited. This is no different from the enactment of the kosher laws (which prohibited fraternization with idolators as well as eating of their sacrifices) or the prohibition on the shaving of one's beard.
In fact, ALL the prohibitions in that section of Leviticus are for the same reason. Homophobes like to take the quote out of context and claim that G-d (or Jews) hates gays, but that just isn't so (at least from the Jewish perspective) -- especially since G-d is speaking ONLY to the Jews in Leviticus.
This means that a good, practicing Jewish man is not permitted to engage in homosexual acts, but a Jewish woman can still be a lesbian (the Talmud frowns upon it, and calls it "licentiousness", but it is not prohibited by G-d). Likewise, a non-Jewish man can be a homosexual, and G-d makes no mention of it being wrong.
Christian interpretation of the passages may be different; frankly, I don't much care about Christian interpretations of scriptures that they stole from us. Like it or not, most of Mr. Prager's statements are irrelevant to the central topic, not to mention unsupported by the majority of rabbinic opinions. I strongly disapprove of any attempts at making Judaism appear homophobic when it is not.
Oy. Sorry for the rant, but I have strong feelings on this issue.
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Sodom and Gomorrah
45 Minute Video
| And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters who are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. | |
| And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters: the LORD being merciful to him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. | |
| And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life: look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain: escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. | |
| Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; | |
| And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. | |
| But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. | |
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Are our eyes so blind we cannot see our hearts so closed we cannot know our wisdom so dumbed down we cannot understand ? Gods word has come to truth oh lo these many years and yet we still defy the knowledge of what is to come if we do not follow that path of the straight and narrow ! |
Judaism does nor fear homosexuals (which is what "homophobe" means). It condemns homosexuality as a grave sin.
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