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The [Perfect] Passion: Three Reviews and a letter (The Most Complete and HONEST review yet)
The Ornery American ^ | Feb 29, 2004 | Orson Scott Card

Posted on 03/01/2004 5:37:36 PM PST by gobucks

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To: .30Carbine
I agree that lethal injection would not have sufficed for the death of our Savior.

You are absolutely correct. Very good comment.

The scourging and crucifixion were required for the fulfillment of prophesy, as well as the blood sacrifice for our atonement. Thanks for those insights.
101 posted on 03/02/2004 6:59:33 AM PST by Texas2step (<><)
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To: gobucks
I considered noting that OSC was a Mormon in my initial post comment.

I'm glad you didn't. Too many (possibly myself) would have chosen not to read objectively. This commentary deserves to be widely read, regardless of OSC's specific personal beliefs.

To be honest, I wouldn't have expected so stringent a defense of a movie about Jesus, particularly since we believe that it was God up there on that cross.
102 posted on 03/02/2004 7:09:49 AM PST by Texas2step (<><)
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To: Texas2step
The prophecies had spoken of his "stripes".

This was the opening verse on the movie screen. All the reviewers read the verse before they saw anything else. They all know that the artistic rubric of the whole film was to be that He would take the STRIPES of our healing.

Also, it was necessary that Jesus' mode of death be symmetrical with what men do to God every day. The greater and more pure the love, the more like torture is the rejection from the beloved.

Never have I seen so much moral obtuseness written about anything, ever. It is all so illuminating.

103 posted on 03/02/2004 7:11:24 AM PST by Taliesan (fiction police)
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To: gobucks
But, I got the sense the reviewer was not really hit by the movie like OSC was.

I agree. It took a couple of reads to get the sense of this.

104 posted on 03/02/2004 7:41:43 AM PST by Eala (Sacrificing tagline fame for... TRAD ANGLICAN RESOURCE PAGE: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican)
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To: gobucks
Excellent!

Thanks. Bttt

105 posted on 03/02/2004 8:21:16 AM PST by DoctorMichael (Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
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To: gobucks
Please don't donate any part of the profits to charity. Instead, use it to finance other films, so this faithful audience can have the visualized stories they hunger for. Keep the standards high, and the audience will only grow. This will do far more for Christianity -- and religious faith in general -- than any other donation you might make.
Just make "G-rated" movies which accord with Philippians 4:8, if you aren't inspired to do other biblical narratives.

I think it would be deadly to try to do another biblical narrative without inspiration, just because this one worked. And probably a change of theme is necessary just for you to keep in balance. Certainly wouldn't be good if you felt you were slipping if you made a movie that didn't gross $200 million . . .

106 posted on 03/02/2004 10:05:06 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (Belief in your own objectivity is the essence of subjectivity.)
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To: Texas2step
thanks for the ping! Will read later.
107 posted on 03/02/2004 1:01:57 PM PST by Gal.5:1 (thank You Jesus)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
That's an even better idea!
108 posted on 03/02/2004 2:02:05 PM PST by Bonaparte
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To: DoctorMichael
You're welcome!
109 posted on 03/02/2004 5:38:14 PM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon)
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To: gobucks
Excellant Post! Thanks- I have read only a third so far but it is a joy already! I plan to see it a second time tomorrow during the day. The first time I was angry that I was consumed with the "controversies" while watching it.
110 posted on 03/02/2004 8:05:05 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: King Prout
...." Romans IIRC - knowing Jesus not mandatory for salvation."......

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that notation of Bible scripture. Sounds like the doctrines of men to me. The Bible (in red letters no less) says Jesus is the ONLY way. The book of Romans is plain that Jesus is the way, along with several other books.

If it were possible to make it to heaven without Jesus, then why did He die? What other man was sinless? Only sinless persons can enter the Kingdom. He is our only advocate to the Father. Jesus told the Pharisees what would happen to self righteous persons. We need His righteousness to enter.

I would be happy to reconsider if you can give chapter and verse supporting what you say.

111 posted on 03/02/2004 10:43:27 PM PST by chuckles
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To: gobucks
Shhhh, don't tell anyone I escaped their plantation! lol
112 posted on 03/02/2004 10:55:32 PM PST by Fledermaus (This Tagline For Rent!)
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To: gobucks
...."Kind of muddled, but do you see where I'm headed?"...

Yes, I know where you are headed. I hear it all the time from people that believe we have a weak God and twist the Bible verses to say what they want to hear.

He did know you would accept Christ, from the begining, your name was in the Book of Life. That is why Christians are against abortion. He knows the begining and the end. He knows who are His and who isn't. Do you believe that meeting God, you could resist Him? He is irresistable. He is God. He will have His way. There is no plan "B". If you are exposed, and don't come to Him, you are not His. Remember, He knows you and your thoughts. He created you. Why do some men resist? Because they haven't met Him, or they are not His. If you have an encounter(personal) with God, You will see Him in His glory and all things will change to new. Just hearing about Him doesn't do that. That is why miracle's happen every day in front of wittnesses, and it only affects some and not others. It was meant for those that were affected. The others say "What a coincidence!" When Jesus was asked why He spoke in parables, He replied that some may hear and understand. Why not all? Why did the Apostles just leave their jobs and families, without question? He knew who to ask! Judas was known from the foundation to be His betrayer.

There is not one word in the Bible that speaks of free will. The verse that applies here is the one that tells us not to judge, lest we be judged. He is not telling His people not to judge sin. The Bible is rife with verses saying to condemn sin, to hate sin, to run from sin. But we don't know who is His and who isn't going to heaven. He is judge, not us. What will surprise many is who is in heaven when they get there, and who isn't. I'm convinced there are preachers in hell and murderers in heaven, because the preacher never met Jesus, but was a pious, religious man, and the murderer met Jesus on their death bed.(AKA the thief on the cross). We cannot judge. Our job is to treat everyone as our brother( like ourselves), and preach the "Good News".(the great commission)

His people were the ones that were redeemed by His blood. If someone that isn't His was redeemed, then there is no need for hell. The Bible is plain that there are people condemned to hell. Ergo, someone wasn't redeemed. His blood doesn't cover them.

113 posted on 03/02/2004 11:16:55 PM PST by chuckles
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To: gobucks
I've now seen your post #86! Thank you. I agree that sectarianism is not of Christ. Paul spoke to that:
1 Corinthians 1:10-13.

The longer I am a follower of the Way, a disciple of the Christ, the more I see that there are stalks of true wheat and clouds of real chaff in every congregation, and many Believers outside church walls. We know them by their fruit, for only God can judge the heart. Discernment is called for.

It is no coincidence that the Book of Jude is placed right before The Revelation in Scripture.

114 posted on 03/03/2004 2:12:55 AM PST by .30Carbine (God encourage Mel Gibson in his heart; keep him well-armored against attack)
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To: chuckles
Amazed as I now read your post the similarities in our comments. Greetings in the Name of Christ.
115 posted on 03/03/2004 2:23:25 AM PST by .30Carbine
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To: Burkeman1
You are welcome ... w/ so many positive replies to this post about going and seeing it again, I think I'll change my own mind and see it again too.

It was half way through I thought, no way I'm coming back for seconds on this. (Funny, Christ didn't really present himself that way, century after century.)
116 posted on 03/03/2004 4:27:34 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon)
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To: gobucks; Lando Lincoln; danneskjold; .cnI redruM; Aggie Mama; Alamo-Girl; Andyman; Bigg Red; ...
Orson Scott Card - belated PING into a thread in full swing. Don't miss his review of THE PASSION!!

[please freepmail me if you want or don't want to be pinged to Orson Scott Card political articles]

If you want to bookmark his articles discussed at FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/k-orsonscottcard/browse

His own political website: http://www.ornery.org/index.html  is heavily populated by American- and other Leftists who are delightfully annoyed by Mr. Card's conservatism. He does not post on that site and its moderated by somebody else. He is a registered Democrat upset with hijacking of his party by the Left.

His literary, non-political website: http://www.hatrack.com

His fresh articles appear in the Rhinoceros Times, Greensboro, NC: http://www.rhinotimes.com/greensboro/  (before being posted permanently on his ornery website). He has 2 columns in the RhinoTimes: one on political/international events, and the second one: reviews on movies, books, and anything he wants (!). I check his and  Michael Medved's  reviews and found myself reliably relying on them.

117 posted on 03/03/2004 5:03:30 AM PST by Tolik
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To: Tolik
Thanks so much for the ping--I already read the thread, but I sure would have missed it, if I hadn't. ;-D

OSC is one of my favorite writers.
118 posted on 03/03/2004 5:13:43 AM PST by Judith Anne (Is life a paradox? Well, yes and no...)
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To: gobucks
"....please withdraw The Passion of the Christ from consideration for any and all awards."

A great point. Nothing says "screw you" quite like silence. This movie didn't need hollywood's money, didn't need hollywood's support, didn't need hollywood's inside propoganda machine.

Don't give the the honor of passing judgement.

119 posted on 03/03/2004 5:46:00 AM PST by Pietro
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To: gobucks
Give yourself an attaboy.
ATTABOY!

"It looks like you're going to make a profit on The Passion of the Christ. Please don't donate any part of the profits to charity. Instead, use it to finance other films, so this faithful audience can have the visualized stories they hunger for. Keep the standards high, and the audience will only grow. This will do far more for Christianity -- and religious faith in general -- than any other donation you might make."

Mel, Call, we'll do lunch I've got some ideas.
120 posted on 03/03/2004 7:04:12 AM PST by Valin (America is the land mine between barbarism and civilization.)
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