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U.S. Marines Deploy to More Haiti Cities (Why are we Haitied so much? The Haiti invasion & Kerry)
ABC News ^ | Friday, March 5, 2004

Posted on 03/05/2004 12:26:08 PM PST by JohnHuang2

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti March 5 — U.S. forces have expanded their presence in Haiti beyond the capital, deploying to at least two cities that are rebel strongholds, a U.S. military spokesman said Friday. Excerpted--click for full article.

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Why are we Haitied so much? The Haiti invasion and the French-looking Candidate

On Sunday morning, the scene was pure anarchy. To have called it a very chaotic situation would be putting it mildly. The whole thing looked very troubling. Confusion reigned as the free-for-all pandemonium -- the disarray and tumult -- grew wilder and wilder. As the cameras panned, zooming in on the militants, I could swear these guys looked high on drugs or something. Some looked like zombies. Others looked like plain hooligans or jailbirds. The clashes were fierce. Things were spiraling out of control. The notion these thugs could drive a president from office and provide security still seems ludicrous to me. There was so much turmoil, sooooo much upheaval, soooooooo much fighting, I couldn't help wondering, 'Will there be a bloodbath?'

But enough on the Democrat debate last Sunday (aired on CBS).

By the way, have you heard about the situation in Haiti? Sensing an imminent threat posed by Weapons of Mass Disturbance in Port-au-Prince, Democrat Sen. John Francois Kerry blasted the President for refusing to Rush To War in Haiti. What was Bush waiting for? For Haiti to attack the U.S. first? (Why, within just 45 minutes, the Ton Ton Macoutes could've deployed their long-range, ballistic machetes and bayonets, threatening a stiletto-shaped cloud over New York!)

Kerry was having none of this Win Without War stuff. Not when it comes to the latest global crisis in Haiti. With Americans across the U.S. feeling threatened by gangs in Port-au-Prince, Kerry ripped the peacenik Bush administration for ignoring Haiti, which recently plunged into turmoil 200 years ago. "I never would have allowed (Haiti) to get out of control the way it did," said the swashbuckling, rootin-tootin, gun-slinging Warmonger from Massachusetts in last Sunday's debate. Rather than acting pre-emptively, Bush waited too long, Kerry argued. 200 years! "He's late, as usual," said Kerry, bitterly. "This president always makes decisions late after things have happened that could have been different had he made a decision earlier," added Kerry. Bush acts as if going to war should be a matter of last resort or something. With the U.S. threatened by stockpiles of rioters and looters in Haiti, a president should not wait to go through the U.N., nor build a legitimate coalition. Internationalizing the effort -- and postwar planning to win the peace -- means wasting precious time. With America's way of life at stake on the streets of Haiti, it's time we couldn't afford to waste, Kerry insists. Military action in Haiti should never hinge on U.N. approval. If ever a case could be made for building a Fraudulent Coalition, Going-It-Alone, invading and occupying, it was Haiti. (Effective line of attack for Kerry? Nah. He's late, as usual. This Kerry guy always makes decisions late after things have happened that could have been different had he made a decision earlier).

Besides, in Haiti, Bush had a message for the influence peddlers, for the polluters, for the looters, the big drug traffickers that got in the way, the big special interests who called Aristide's palace their home: 'We're coming. You're going. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.' Aristide's departure triggered chaos across the Democrat Party.

In a telephone interview Monday with the Associated Press, the hated dictator denied he was hated and said he was "forced to leave" by U.S. troops, remarks which sent tinfoil stocks soaring off the charts on Wall Street. Rep. Charles Rangle (D-Port-au-Prince), worried that swift regime change in Haiti could help Bush's standing in polls, accused U.S. troops of swift regime change in Haiti and of brutally kidnapping Aristide. (Go ahead -- play with my heart strings, why don't you?) Congresscritter Maxine Waters (D-Landoffruitsandnuts) also accused U.S. troops of brutally kidnapping Aristide. Aristide was so brutally kidnapped, that a video released by the Central African Republic showed him descending from a plane with no military escort.

In fact, so brutally kidnapped was Aristide that he forgot to say anything about being brutally kidnapped to a Caribbean Official he chatted via phone with from a refueling stop in Antigua. (Must've just slipped his mind. Aristide's 'mind' is the most secure location insanity has available). The Caribbean Official said Aristide said nothing about being kidnapped. Aristide also forgot to mention he was brutally kidnapped when he spoke on state radio Monday in the Central African Republic, in broadcasts carried nationwide. But that was before Congresscritters Waters and Rangle reminded Aristide that he was brutally kidnapped. The U.S. denied the allegations. "Absolutely baseless, absurd," said Secretary of State Colin Powell Monday. (Frankly, this kidnapping stuff is beyond baseless and absured. Look, Aristide might not have been an angel, but he was no danger to America like that brutal and corrupt, 6-year-old-dictator-kid, Elian Gonzalez!) The question of whether Aristide was kidnapped could be settled easily, I think. Order him to turn over several pair of diapers he's worn recently. If they ain't soiled, that's evidence his stepping down was voluntary.

Regardless, Rangle says Bush fueled the ouster of the hated dictator, affirming he's the first democratically elected president-for-life in Haiti. (So deeply commited to democracy was Aristide, he sought to foster democracy by liquidating rivals, suppressing dissent, looting foreign aid money. But, hey, don't thank him -- it's just another day at the office for Aristide, son of a mill worker who saw two Haitis after sawing Haiti in two. In the evenings, exhausted after doing so much democracy, he'd relax by absorbing the fictional works of fellow democracy champion, Karl Marx). Bush "was just as much a part of this coup d'etat as the rebels, as the looters," charged Rangle Sunday on ABC's The Week. No doubt the rebels and looters, chanting '200 more years!!!', were rebelling and looting because of fuel from Bush's tax cuts for Halliburton which fueled Aristide to be murderous and corrupt. (I knew OIL would be dragged into this). Rather than doing the sensible thing -- invading sooner to prop up an unpopular dictator -- "we really have let Haiti down," Rangle lamented. (Think about it. Here's Haiti, a country that has absolutely nothing to do with the War on Terror, poses no immediate threat to U.S. security -- finally, a cause worth fighting for! say Democrats). Rangle added that "it's really disappointing. We encouraged the coup" to get rid of a murderous dictator. (The Taliban, Saddam, Howell Raines -- all gone. So sad! Now this? Who's next in this harvest of sorrow? Castro? If Bush isn't stopped soon, he'll plunge the whole world into freedom!)

To be fair, I've been told by well-placed sources Aristide hasn't killed or tortured anyone . . . since Sunday, when he bravely fled into exile. (So much for his commitment to democracy!) Some say Aristide was destined for a fall. That he had a tin ear for politics, which is true. I bet you could yell Murderer! Torturer! Rapist! Thief! right in his face and his reply would be: 'Flattery will get you no where.' Then again, except for the killing and torture and thieving, he's a pretty low-key kind of guy, some might say. Others might say his patrician style is a turn off; that he's too aloof, too elitist, too much an insider, too dull a speaker -- his penchant for rambling speeches is now legendary; that he waffles too much and never gives straight answers to questions (first, he said he gave Bush authority to invade; now he says he's against the invasion because of the way he was handled). His basic problem is he comes across with all the authenticity of a San Francisco gay marriage license. And he fails to connect with people (though, to be fair, he did try to connect with people. Using cattle prods during friendly interrogation sessions for detainees. Though sparks would fly during those, the technique was seen as overreach).

Deposed and rejected, Aristide now sees the media spotlight move elsewhere. The same brutal phenomenon awaits John Kerry, now without the Breck Girl as foil to run against in the primaries (be careful what you wish for). Low on cash, having shot his wad, it's all downhill from here for the French-looking candidate.

Don't ya love it when a plan comes together so beautifully?

Anyway, that's...
My Two Cents
"JohnHuang2"



TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; aristide; car; fast; gonaives; guyphilippe; haiti; haitian; louisjodelchamblain; marines; metayer; nrlf; rebels
Friday, March 5, 2004

Quote of the Day by caisson71

1 posted on 03/05/2004 12:26:09 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
Why are we in the dump of a country? When will our forces be back home? Is this on Kosovo time?
2 posted on 03/05/2004 12:27:35 PM PST by KantianBurke (Principles, not blind loyalty)
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To: xm177e2; mercy; Wait4Truth; hole_n_one; GretchenEE; Clinton's a rapist; buffyt; ladyinred; Angel; ..
Have a great weekend, y'all. Catch ya soon!
3 posted on 03/05/2004 12:27:55 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: JohnHuang2
"I could swear these guys looked high on drugs or something. Some looked like zombies. Others looked like plain hooligans or jailbirds. The clashes were fierce. Things were spiraling out of control. "

Sounds like the last days in Saigon.

4 posted on 03/05/2004 12:49:05 PM PST by B4Ranch (Don't be so open-minded your brains fall out.)
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To: JohnHuang2
If Bush isn't stopped soon, he'll plunge the whole world into freedom!

Now that's funny!

L

5 posted on 03/05/2004 2:20:03 PM PST by Lurker (Don't bite the hand that meads you.)
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To: KantianBurke
We seem to 'liberate' Haiti, leave, and forget about it cyclically.

L

6 posted on 03/05/2004 2:21:12 PM PST by Lurker (Don't bite the hand that meads you.)
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To: Lurker
Our history of invading, occupying then forgetting Haiti is long and goes back to even before USMC General Smedley Butler (CMH x 2) said..."I (invaded) made Haiti safe for US banking interests...".

We have used our muscle in the Caribbean Basin dozens of times with no better excuse than the protection of US Corporate rights to exploit resources. Often we invoked the Monroe Doctrine to squelch European competition for these resources. We as a nation continued to exploit Haiti into the Clinton years where he installed Aristede for his own perceived political gains.

Americans have never felt this type of occupation and outside tampering or the degradation that goes with it. It is ironic that so many here on this forum, where one expects or at least hopes to find informed people, have no inkling of the twisted historical relationship between our country and Haiti.

People here actually blame voodoo for Haiti's condition. The truth is that we as a nation have used this smaller, pretty much defenseless country for our own varied purposes. We owe them a helping hand.

What I just wrote is not theory or conjecture or fantasy in support of some prejudice. What I wrote is an accurate snapshot of history. Anyone who wants to reply discussing the facts is welcome. Anyone looking to ignore our history or deny it will be ignored. And, for a pre-emptive record, statement of historical fact is neither anti- nor pro- any position, it is what I said it is, a statement of historical fact.

7 posted on 03/05/2004 2:40:28 PM PST by wtc911 (Roe v. Wade will end only if proof of a "gay" gene is found, to our national shame.)
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To: wtc911
As a former Marine, I am quite familiar with our history of using our 'muscle' as you put it in the Carribean basin.

Haiti was one of the reasons for the coining of the phrase 'Banana Republic'. Now that phrase adorns clothing worn by people who have no idea what it means.

Whether or not Haitis present condition is 'our fault' or that we 'owe them 'something are legitimate subjects for debate I suppose. It seems to me we helpe Haiti run some reasonably legitimate elections around a decade or so ago and then pretty much left them the hell alone.

Noone has yet explained to me why Haiti is such a sewer yet the country right next door, The Dominican Republic, doesn't seem to suffer from the same type of problems.

Right next door isn't even accurate. Haiti and the DR occupy two halfs of the same island.

One of those countries is someplace I wouldn't send a convicted thief to and the other is a tropical tourist paradise complete with really fine cigars.

Oh well. I suppose this time we'll help the Haitians once again hold 'free and fair' elections and them leave them the hell alone until the consequences of 'one person, one vote, one time' rears its ugly head again....

L

8 posted on 03/05/2004 2:58:29 PM PST by Lurker (Don't bite the hand that meads you.)
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To: Lurker
I think the problem with us taking it over is we're way too politically correct, we don't have what it takes to do decent nation-building. We'd have to accept Voo-doo, praise it as a peace-loving religion, invite the witchdoctors to the White House for prayers. We would be opposed to converting them to Christianity or teaching them anything about Judeo-Christian values, we'd tell them that their culture is equal to ours and that they should keep their old ways and language --- we couldn't expect them to learn English. A tougher country should take Haiti over and fix it.
9 posted on 03/05/2004 3:20:31 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Lurker
There has been a reversal of fortune between Haiti and the DR in the past sixty years. Papa Doc, pretty much left alone by us because he wasn't a communist, chased virtually all the educated and productive people away at gunpoint. Because of the severe class distinctions in the culture the majority of the remaining were uneducated urban and rural poor. There were not enough capable people to maintain the infrastructure.

The peasantry suffered a severe fuel crisis in the 70s, There was nothing to burn but the trees. An ill conceived deforestation began that stripped the mountains bare, rendering the farm land nearly 100% infertile. This led to a migration of poor, barefoot, uneducated to the slums of the cities.

With the quality gone from the population (exceptions of course), the despotic Duvaliers in charge, US standing on the sidelines because there was no longer gain to be had things slid inexorably downhill. Eventually the country threw out baby Doc only to get Aristede, who was supported by us via Clinton. Aristede is deeply involved with the SA cocaine trade, Haiti is now the #1 trans shipment point. His greed knows no bounds and the billions we pumped down there have never reached anyplace where they could do some good.

As a nation, for better or worse, we have diddled Haiti for generations. I think we do owe them at least one more try.

As for the Marines, they have been used as a corporate tool many times. To say so is no reflection on the Corps which always performed the assigned chore with the professionalism for which it is justifiably respected. Although the letters behind my name were NYPD not USMC my family was a Marine family (Grand father WW1, two uncles,WW2, little brother, GW1)

10 posted on 03/05/2004 5:03:25 PM PST by wtc911 (Roe v. Wade will end only if proof of a "gay" gene is found, to our national shame.)
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To: JohnHuang2
I still can't figure out why the US, after pumping billions of dollars into Haiti, and getting SQUAT for the wasted money (well, if you consider a toppled government, rampant cronyism, widespread looting, lawlessness and general mayhem as a decent ROI, then I suppose we DID get something for our money), should continue to support Haiti.

Does Haiti have ANY redeeming qualities as a country that the world should CARE what they do to each other there? Is there any strategic, economic or political advantage that Haiti has that they should garner any support from the other nation states?

I've Google'd, I've Dogpile'd, I've Yahoo!'d and I STILL can't find any redeeming elements of that country.. The National Black Caucus is screaming willy nilly that the Bush Administration has participated in some sort of coup. If the Bush Administration did not want to participate in the current mayhem in the first place, why the heck would they pull a coup? All I can see is that we have been throwing good money after bad in this mess, and should just stay out of it. Let the Haitians take care of their own internal problems!

Someone please explain to me why our hard earned tax dollars are being spent???

OH, and for those peeps who say I am a heartless SOB, because there are children suffering over there, my answer to that is THERE ARE SUFFERING CHILDREN EVERYWHERE, MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE SHOULD FIRST TAKE CARE OF THOSE SUFFERING CHILDREN WHO ARE WITHIN OUR OWN BORDERS.
11 posted on 03/07/2004 4:11:40 AM PST by benq
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To: benq; wtc911
Does Haiti have ANY redeeming qualities as a country that the world should CARE what they do to each other there? Is there any strategic, economic or political advantage that Haiti has that they should garner any support from the other nation states?

The Original Monroe Doctrine recognized that incompetent or worse government in adjacent states was a threat to the United States that we should not tolerate.

Haiti needs a government. 200 years is sufficient proof that self-government is either impossible there, or is so far in the future that it might as well be impossible.

Whether Smedley Butler was right or not about the purposes of the 1913-1933 interlude, it was the only time between Bois Caiman and yesterday that anyone in Haiti had a reasonable sense of security of their person, a necessary precondition to self-government.

Haitian people in the United States are energetic and capable, proving that they can thrive under a reasonable government.

benq, your question turns on whether you want the imposed government that is coming to Haiti to originate here, or elsewhere.

President Monroe had no doubts about which one we should choose.

12 posted on 03/07/2004 4:25:35 AM PST by Jim Noble (Now you go feed those hogs before they worry themselves into anemia!)
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To: JohnHuang2
"The Taliban, Saddam, Howell Raines -- all gone. So sad! Now this? Who's next in this harvest of sorrow? Castro? If Bush isn't stopped soon, he'll plunge the whole world into freedom!) "

LOL. Quote of the day, IMHO. Great piece of truth, John....

13 posted on 03/08/2004 4:22:49 PM PST by eureka! (God Bless our troops....)
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OLD BUMP...

1994 : (POST-INVASION HAITI : "FIRST LADY" HILLARY CLINTON'S BROTHER HUGH RODHAM & THE WIFE OF THE RECENTLY RE-ESTABLISHED PRESIDENT ARISTIDE ARE INVOLVED IN CONTROL OF HAITI'S CELL PHONE BUSINESS ; HUGH RODHAM MAKES A FORTUNE SHIPPING DUTY FREE CARS TO HAITI ) President Clinton's brother-in-law is involved with Aristide's wife in control of Haiti's cellular phone business. Immediately after the Clinton invasion, in 1994, Hugh Rodham made a fortune shipping cars to Haiti, duty free. Aristide's hand was in this.  - unknown FREEPER?

14 posted on 01/06/2008 1:12:08 AM PST by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: piasa

ping


15 posted on 01/06/2008 1:13:47 AM PST by Cvengr (Every believer is a grenade. Arrogance is the grenade pin. Pull the pin and fragment your life.)
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