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EXCLUSIVE REPORT: Ten Worst Government Programs
Human Events ^ | 3-5-04

Posted on 03/05/2004 3:58:55 PM PST by Indy Pendance

1. Medicare Prescription Drug Entitlement



TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: topten

1 posted on 03/05/2004 3:58:56 PM PST by Indy Pendance
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To: Indy Pendance
Unreal!
2 posted on 03/05/2004 4:00:30 PM PST by petercooper (Florida 2000: Bush 2,912,790 - Gore 2,912,253)
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To: petercooper
bump
3 posted on 03/05/2004 4:03:20 PM PST by alisasny (John Kerry is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.)
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To: Indy Pendance
The american sheeple are getting fleeced.
4 posted on 03/05/2004 4:03:27 PM PST by exnavy
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To: Indy Pendance
Constitutional provision: HUMAN EVENTS asked both FRA Director Steven Klum and public affairs advisor Warren Flatau what constitutional language authorized Amtrak. Neither answered the question.

Well, railroads originally played a major role in transporting mail, and thus probably have as much constitutional justification as other transportation infrastructure. Actually, from what I understand Amtrak actually does respectably on some routes, but politics demands that it maintain routes which are major money sinks.

5 posted on 03/05/2004 4:08:55 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Indy Pendance
I'm not going to complain about the U.S. Postal Service. My mail is in the mailbox six days a week, and for only a few cents I can send a letter clear across the country.
6 posted on 03/05/2004 4:11:30 PM PST by squidly (Money is inconvenient for them: give them victuals and an arse-clout, it is enough.)
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To: Indy Pendance
The Post Office is an interesting case in point. Certainly it's Constitutional basis is unchallengable. Many of the Post Office's services are already open to private competition. In fact, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), the only portion of the Post Office's services that are closed to private competition is First Class mail.

And that goes back to the original intent of creating the Post Office. Unlike the model that a private business would use, First Class mail pricing is independent of location or distance. The question is, is it in the public interest to make people living in rural areas pay the extra price that it costs to serve remote and thinly settled areas? Or is it in the public interest, and worth a public subsidy, to maintain such service to such areas so that rural dwellers have a relatively inexpensive way to send mail and small packages? You may not think so, but it seems to be quite Constitutional.
7 posted on 03/05/2004 4:14:56 PM PST by RonF
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To: Indy Pendance
In discussion here on FR, even those who believe in extremely limited government seem to hold that building and maintaining roads is a proper government function. Support of Amtrack is not too far a stretch from that. And if you are going to call subsidies of Amtrack into question, it seems to me that subsidies for road building used by the trucking and busing industries, and subsidies of airport building (and the airline companies themselves), competitors of Amtrack, also ought to be examined. What would Amtrack's financials look like if they didn't have to build and maintain the railroad tracks and crossings?
8 posted on 03/05/2004 4:22:02 PM PST by RonF
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To: Indy Pendance
Excellent! (although I would not have placed the Post Office on the list since the Constitution delegates that power to the United States)

I'd put the war on drugs on the list as well.

What is the constitutional provision for the war on drugs?

9 posted on 03/05/2004 4:25:45 PM PST by Ken H
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To: Indy Pendance
"We don't have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven't taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much."
President Ronald Reagan, March 28, 1982
10 posted on 03/05/2004 4:34:45 PM PST by Reagan Man (The choice is clear. Reelect BUSH-CHENEY in 2004)
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To: RonF
The Post Office is an interesting case in point. Certainly it's Constitutional basis is unchallengable. Many of the Post Office's services are already open to private competition. In fact, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), the only portion of the Post Office's services that are closed to private competition is First Class mail.

That plus the ability to deliver to mailboxes and P.O. boxes.

And that goes back to the original intent of creating the Post Office. Unlike the model that a private business would use, First Class mail pricing is independent of location or distance. The question is, is it in the public interest to make people living in rural areas pay the extra price that it costs to serve remote and thinly settled areas? Or is it in the public interest, and worth a public subsidy, to maintain such service to such areas so that rural dwellers have a relatively inexpensive way to send mail and small packages? You may not think so, but it seems to be quite Constitutional.

What carriers distinguish between rural and urban destinations? When sending packages Brown or (I think) Orange, UPS charges based on geographic distance (NYC to LA is more expensive than NYC to Albany) but I don't think there's any difference sending a package to Squirrel Island, Maine vs. Augusta, even though the former is only reachable via boat.

11 posted on 03/05/2004 4:41:45 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Indy Pendance
Did not read the article but to come up with only 10 (ten) they had to split hairs to come up with only 10 (ten).
12 posted on 03/05/2004 4:46:20 PM PST by CathyRyan
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To: Indy Pendance
Fish & Wildlife Spokeswoman Betsy Lordan said: "There are three potential sources of constitutional authority: property power, treaty power, and commerce power. The commerce power is the one frequently used to defend the ESA. In fact, the constitutional basis for many environmental statutes, including the ESA, is the Commerce Clause, which grants Congress the authority to regulate activities that affect interstate commerce."

Huh, I guess the Constitution I've been using must be the abridged version.

13 posted on 03/05/2004 4:54:18 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: farmfriend
ping
14 posted on 03/05/2004 5:05:43 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: Indy Pendance; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
15 posted on 03/05/2004 5:41:06 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: supercat
What carriers distinguish between rural and urban destinations?

They may not distinguish other than on distance, but for the more rural areas they get the articles to their nearest depot, then mail them rather than go to those remote points...

16 posted on 03/05/2004 6:00:10 PM PST by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: Indy Pendance
The only subsidies the postal service currently receives are for retiree benefits (primarily for those who retired before reorganization) and for low rates for 'subsidized classes of mail' required by law - primarily non-profit rates and congressional mailings.
17 posted on 03/05/2004 6:03:14 PM PST by Kay Ludlow (Free market, but cautious about what I support with my dollars)
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To: Indy Pendance
Eliminate most of these give-aways and privatize others (The SS and PO, for example). Will it happen on a Pubbie watch? Naaaahhhhh! They will be expanded if the RATS get in power.
18 posted on 03/05/2004 6:08:18 PM PST by Paulus Invictus (4)
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To: supercat
I gave up sending my product packages every day via the PO. Too expensive and time-consuming. Good old UPS does a great job and picks them up for me and I can use their computer system to make the labels too..
19 posted on 03/05/2004 6:11:01 PM PST by Paulus Invictus (4)
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To: Kay Ludlow
Oh yes, and they have better retirement bennies than I had. My golfing buddy, an ex-PO guy, gets nearly full salary and other great bennies.
20 posted on 03/05/2004 6:12:40 PM PST by Paulus Invictus (4)
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To: RonF
What would Amtrack's financials look like if they didn't have to build and maintain the railroad tracks and crossings?

They don't! For the most part the Amtrak trains all run on lines owned by the freight railroad companies -- indeed the freight trains have priority when there is a schedulding conflict. Amtrak pays a fee to the freight railrods for the use of their tracks.

See here:

Although it operates over 22,000 miles of track in the United States, it owns only about 650 miles of track, primarily in the Northeast corridor between Washington, D.C., and Boston. The rest of the track it uses is owned by major freight railroads, including Richmond, Va.-based CSX Corp. and Norfolk, Va.-based Norfolk Southern for Amtrak trains serving Pittsburgh.

21 posted on 03/05/2004 6:20:14 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Indy Pendance
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!
22 posted on 03/05/2004 7:49:35 PM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: FreedomCalls
Although it operates over 22,000 miles of track in the United States, it owns only about 650 miles of track, primarily in the Northeast corridor between Washington, D.C., and Boston.

I seem to recall that's also the area where Amtrak actually turns a profit.

There are some places where passenger rail makes sense, and there are places where freight rail makes sense, but passengers and freight have different requirements and I don't know that it makes sense for them to try to share track on a routine basis. Having passenger and freight networks compatible and interconnected could be useful for some purposes (some that come to mind would be (1) transporting empty passenger rolling stock from one place to another, where the rolling stock itself is regarded as "freight"; (2) getting passengers who would otherwise be stranded to their destination, albeit slowly, via the freight network in case part of the passenger network goes out of commission; (3) getting freight to its destination via the passenger network in case part of the freight network went down; it may be necessary to segment long trains to avoid excessive wear to the passenger lines, but this could be better than not being able to move it at all) but in general I think the requirements are apt to be different enough that trying to use the lines for multiple purposes really won't work that well.

23 posted on 03/05/2004 8:06:37 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!!
24 posted on 03/06/2004 3:06:36 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Indy Pendance
This is a great article. The author did a great job especially asking bureaucrats what the constitutional basis is for their existence.

Every federal law has two constitutional thresholds to hurdle.

One, does the power and jurisdiction exist to enact a law?

Two, if yes, then does the enacted law violate the bill of rights?

The power and jurisdiction for the federal Congress to enact federal laws comes from several sources:

Some say Article I, Section 8, Cl 1, the "general welfare clause." (Medicare, Farm Subsidies, National Endowment for the Arts, Education, Title IX, Amtrak, etc.)

Some say Article I, Section 8, Cl 3, the "commerce clause." (minimum wage, OSHA, anti-discrimination laws, overtime pay, etc.)

Article I, Section 8, Cl 17, federal jurisdiction within the boundaries of a sovereign state that the federal government lawfully purchases from a state. (forts, federal buildings, armories, mints, etc.)

Article VI, Section 2, ratified treaties becoming the "law of the land." (Endanger Species Act, Social Security, Migratory Bird Act, etc.)

Ok, so the Congress can name several sources of constitutionally granted power and jurisdiction.

But, many of these laws violate the Bill of Rights.

The Endangered Species Act violates the 5th amendment. (..nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.)

Minimum Wage Laws, Family Leave Act violates the 5th amendment.

Social Security is "voluntary" for U.S. citizens, mandatory for legal aliens.

Unfortunately, it is the modern interpretation of expanding the power and jurisdiction of the "general welfare clause" and the "commerce clause" coupled with the blatant ignoring of the 5th amendment to reign in this expanded power, by former and current President's (both parties), members of Congress (both parties), and the federal judiciary that has unleashed the federal leviathan into unconstitutional denying and disparaging of our personal and property rights.

25 posted on 03/06/2004 9:17:43 AM PST by tahiti
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bttt
26 posted on 03/08/2004 7:56:55 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Indy Pendance
Amazing.

The Martha Stewart oonvicted thread had almost 1,600 posts.

This only 27.

27 posted on 03/09/2004 6:32:09 PM PST by Kay Soze (Democrats gave us Vietnam and Gay Marriages- What more damage could they do to our society ?)
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To: Kay Soze
Yep, prorities matter around here. Post a pit bull story, see how many replies you get on that.
28 posted on 03/09/2004 6:38:39 PM PST by Indy Pendance
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