Open Letter To Charles Krauthammer Re:"The Passion"

[muawiyah]

Krauthammer also has to refurbish his mind-numbed Liberal credentials from time to time so they will continue allowing him to speak on their talking-head shows.

Many of us can recall the days where the single Conservative voice was always shouted down by Liberal ghouls and harpies.

He's got a cheap fix here in the "Passion". No Liberals will be offended by what he said. He will continue to receive a place on their stage.

[h.a. cherev]

I won't respond to your entire letter...I don't have the time. Moreover, I haven't read the original article yet. But I would like to comment on this POV and have taken the liberty of inviting several of your supporters to see if they also believe this.

YOU WROTE:The blood libel that this story had affixed upon the Jewish people had resulted in countless Christian massacres of Jews, and prepared Europe for the ultimate massacre -- 6 million Jews systematically murdered within six years.

So, you believe that the central act of the Christian faith is responsible for the holocaust.

I think you're twisting Krauthammer's words. The central act of the Christian faith was the crucifixion - not the role of the Jews, Romans or anyone else, correct? Isn't the central act that JC died for your sins? Or is the role of the Jews the central act because that's it appears you're saying to me. Have I misread you?

Moreover, if you don't believe there were massacres of Jews throughout history by "Christians" who blamed Jews for the death of JC, then what do you think prepared Europe for the Holocaust? Do you think Hitler just sprung up from nowhere and millions of "Christians" decided to go along with the idea of extermination as a lark? There was no prejudice against the Jews at all in "Christian" Europe? Or if there was, what do you think was the cause? Was it the behavior of the Jews? What did they do to make everyone hate them so much?

BTW, I use the quotation marks around the word, "Christian", because on a number of these threads I was told that true Christians would never have allowed Hitler to perpetrate his crimes against humanity. I mean no disrespect.

Clearly Christians believe that satan is behind motivating people throughout history to committ heinous sinful acts such as Hitler's murder of millions of Jews, Stalin's murder of millions of Christians,

FYI, Stalin murdered loads of Jews as well. But I digress. I'd like you to clarify this for me since I'm not Christian, but Jewish. The Jewish faith believes in free will. If a Jew decides to sin, he or she is not allowed to blame "Satan". They should take responsibility for their acts, ask forgiveness, repent, and resolve not to sin again. Perhaps it's different in Christianity. Do you blame all your sins on Satan and thus deny any responsibility for them? You have no free will?

[mc5cents]

YOU WROTE: The most subtle, and most revolting, of these has to my knowledge not been commented upon. In Gibson's movie Satan appears four times. Not one of these appearances occurs in the four Gospels. They are pure invention.

I guess he forgot Matthew Chap 4 and Mark Chap 1. I don't know. Maybe Charles never read the New Testament. Very disappointing.

[dennisw]

Good post thanks!

[Americathy]

If you study the causes of the Nazi movement you will find it heavily steeped in paganism. Yes, there were so-called Christians who went along with Hitler, but they were no true followers of Christ. Hitler used desperation and fear to weed out the true and came up with a whole lot of false ones. No true Christian would have followed Hitler when they heard him claim himself to be Christ.

Jesus himself noted how few were true, that the "gate is narrow." We have those same sort of "Christians" out there today, like KKK people who claim to be followers of Jesus. Their hatred is counter to true Christian teaching, and true Christians recognize the false ones almost immediately.

About free will: The letter writer didn't mean Satan causes people to sin, but encourages them to sin. If you believe in the Genesis record (maybe you do, maybe you don't), isn't that what Satan did? Christians understand that regardless of Satan's pressure on Adam and Eve, they were both personally responsible for their own actions.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"Yes, there were so-called Christians who went along with Hitler, but they were no true followers of Christ."

This is the most well meaning but pathetic sophistry I have ever heard!!!! What weasel words. That's like saying all the priests who molested those boys and all the bishops who covered it up were not true Catholics so no Catholics ever really molested boys and no Catholics ever covered it. Stop it please!!

[h.a. cherev]

Perhaps I mistaken, but I don't think you addressed the issue of pre-Hitler Europe. If you don't want to, I understand.

The letter writer didn't mean Satan causes people to sin, but encourages them to sin. If you believe in the Genesis record (maybe you do, maybe you don't), isn't that what Satan did?

Not in the Jewish faith. The serpent questioned Eve; "Did, perhaps, G-D say: "You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?" Eve embellished what G-D had commanded since there was no prohibition against touching the tree. Then, the serpent said that they would not die if they ate of the fruit. In other words, the serpent tested Eve's faith in G-D....In life, we are always tested. It is our own evil inclination which leads us astray. Satan is considered an angel of G-D; an accusing angel, but still a servent to G-D. As such, Satan does not have the power to act against G-D, nor lie, nor trap or encourage man to sin....man's own evil inclination is at fault - not any angel.

Christianity is different?

[eccentric]

Just to see what I may have forgotten, I stuck in my tape of Jesus of Nazareth. The 'scourging' scene last a few seconds and afterwards Jesus walks sadly to Pilot like a child who is told to clean his room. You know, they have their own 'feel good' movies.

[Atchafalaya]

Excellent, would you be so kind to post any reply that you get from Krauthammer; I would think it would be interesting.
Welcome and stick around.

[NewRomeTacitus]

Mr. Krauthammer finally made a misstep into a realm he is too logical to comment on in the way he is used to. That's a GOOD thing. He will be a better person for having his worldview expanded and expend extra effort when he analyzes like subjects in the future. Look for more insightful work from him in the future.

[Stand4Truth]

Cherev,

YOU WROTE:I think you're twisting Krauthammer's words. The central act of the Christian faith was the crucifixion - not the role of the Jews, Romans or anyone else, correct? Isn't the central act that JC died for your sins? Or is the role of the Jews the central act because that's it appears you're saying to me. Have I misread you?

I disagree. Krauthammer says that "the blood libel that "this story" has affixed upon the Jewish people has led to the Holocaust". He does not say that "those who misrepresent the Passion have affixed this blood libel that led to the Holocaust. He places the blame on "The Passion or The Story"

YOU WROTE: Do you blame all your sins on Satan and thus deny any responsibility for them? You have no free will?

I think you know the answer to this, but I'll respond to make sure. Christianity teaches and I believe that yes we all have a free will and can choose whether or not to sin, and whether or not to confess these sins and ask for Christ's forgiveness that was purchased by "His Passion". If we "choose" by our "free will" to reject this grace then we face the eternal consequences of Hell as a result of "a choice of our free will". If you read my post I state that Satan is behind "motivating" people to sin and always has been. This is clearly the case, but just as clearly we have the "choice" whether or not to give in to this motivation and we have no one but ourselves to blame in the end when we shall give account for our life before God. Hopefully that clears it up.

[Stand4Truth]

Thanks for the kind words. Absolutely, I'll be happy to post any reply that I get from Krauthammer, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Americathy]

No, I was talking about the whole Aryan movement, which began with a surge of paganism long before Hitler seized upon it. Aryan ideas first came to the German people via romance novels about the origins of the master race. This caught the fancy of the people and eventually prompted Himmler and others to start secret pagan societies, all of them both anti-Jew and anti-Christian.

Regarding Satan, I'm not sure of the Christian theology. I have always understood Satan to be a fallen angel. Not sure I can see God telling the serpent to lie to Eve just to test her. But whatever the case, the point is Christians believe they have an inclination to sin and they are responsible for their own sin. But that doesn't mean Satan doesn't put temptation before them. If Jesus had given in to Satan's temptations, it would have been Jesus' fault. Sometimes other people tempt us, but if we sin, we think it is our fault.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

Do you want to know something really creepy?? I mean I am FREAKING OUT.

From a review by Philip A. Cunningham Executive Director, Center for Christian-Jewish Learning at Boston College

"Indeed, it is obvious upon close examination that Gibson has actually created a cinematic version not so much of the Gospels but of Anne Catherine Emmerich’s purported visions of the death of Jesus.

The Passion According to Anne Catherine Emmerich

Anne Catherine Emmerich lived between 1774 and 1824. An Augustinian nun in Westphalia, Germany who was renowned as a mystic and stigmatic, her dreams or visions of the life of Christ were collected after her death and published. Living when Christians simply took it for granted that Jews were collectively cursed for the crucifixion of Jesus, her narratives emphasize Jewish evildoing.

Probably the most disturbing indication of Emmerich’s attitudes toward Jews is found in a reported vision that occurred in 1819. A recently deceased Jewish widow takes Emmerich’s spirit on a journey to a distant Jewish city:

The soul of the old Jewess Meyr told me on the way that it was true that in former times the Jews, both in our country and elsewhere, had strangled many Christians, principally children, and used their blood for all sort of superstitious and diabolical practices. She had once believed it lawful; but she now knew that it was abominable murder. They still follow such practices in this country and in others more distant; but very secretly, because they are obliged to have commercial intercourse with Christians.[4] Given this matter-of-fact repetition of the blood libel, followed by racist descriptions of Jews with “hooked noses” (whose degree of bend indicates their degree of evilness),[5] it is not surprising that Emmerich’s account of Jesus’ passion prominently features negative images of Jews, including a close association with the demonic

" Geese Louise!!! Do you believe this? Jews strangling Christian babies?????? I am really glad I did not pay to support this movie. And irony is that Protestants are supporting it not really caring how extra biblical stuff is in it. And not caring that Mel Gibson thinks all Protestants are going to hell which is not Catholic teaching.

[Frank_2001]

Excellent post!

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"Many Catholics reject "the result" of Vatican II because of the devastation it has wraught on The Church."

If he does not stop reading after five sentences he will stop reading right here. No Catholic should be rejecting the teachings of Vatican II regarding relations with the Jews.

[Americathy]

That's like saying all the priests who molested those boys and all the bishops who covered it up were not true Catholics so no Catholics ever really molested boys and no Catholics ever covered it.

Not the same thing at all. Catholics might disagree here, but Catholicism is merely a membership into a group, just as Methodism is a membership into a group. Those priests who molested little boys may be Catholic, but they are no Christians and they will find no place in heaven when they die unless they repent of their sins.

True Christianity is not a membership. If one is "born again" one is born into a new life. There are plenty who fake it. I work with a man who claims to be a Christian but his life shows me clearly that he is not. He is living with a woman, he is cruel to his fellow man, he regularly engages in pornography. Yet he will quickly quote the Bible to you to make a point. Jesus said we will know them by their fruits. This man's fruit is rotten. Though he belongs to a church, has even been baptized (I heard him talking about it one day), he has never been born into that new life. He is no Christian.

[h.a. cherev]

I disagree. Krauthammer says that "the blood libel that "this story" has affixed upon the Jewish people has led to the Holocaust". He does not say that "those who misrepresent the Passion have affixed this blood libel that led to the Holocaust. He places the blame on "The Passion or The Story"

I'm not sure I grasp how important the difference is. It's not the story itself but how it was told? Either way, was it told by "Christians" for centuries? Did that telling and retelling lead "Christians" to act as they did during the Holocaust?

If you read my post I state that Satan is behind "motivating" people to sin and always has been.

Ah, then what is at issue here is my lack of understanding of Christian theology. In the Jewish faith, Satan is characterized as an accusing angel - as such, he is a servant of G-D and is not allowed to be deceitful or dishonest.

Hopefully that clears it up.

Thanks, it does.

[h.a. cherev]

Thanks for clearing things up. Have a great day.

[Americathy]

Do you believe this? Jews strangling Christian babies??????

I have only heard the movie is based on Emmerich's work from the ADL and others, not from Gibson. That mystic was nuts, but even if he incorporated any of her work, nothing of the sort about strangling Christian babies is even remotely suggested in Gibson's movie.

I am really glad I did not pay to support this movie. And irony is that Protestants are supporting it not really caring how extra biblical stuff is in it. And not caring that Mel Gibson thinks all Protestants are going to hell which is not Catholic teaching.

Gibson has never said anything of the sort. He even said something about believing that Jews are going to heaven. Where are you getting this garbage? Don't you think it might make sense to go to the movie to see for yourself?