Suit looms over house numbers

The Huntsville (Alabama) Times ^ | 03/06/04 | STEVE NOWOTTNY

[DugwayDuke]

"I can't see why they should need a permit to build a house, numbers or not."

You can build it, but the power company won't hook you up without a final inspection. Without a building permit, you can't get the inspection. Without a house number you can't get a building permit. The families involved consider electricity to be a somewhat necessary convienience.

[ConservativeMan55]

bump

[PAR35]

There is reason to belive that one of the attorneys advising the county on this matter is a member of the board of this land trust.

If he has disclosed the conflict to both the Trust and to the County, and they have granted waivers, he is probably in the clear on the ethics issues.

I saw on a response to someone else you indicated that the names matched. If you haven't done so, you can check here
http://www.alabar.org/directory/dirSearch.cfm
to see if there are other lawyers by that name in the state.

One final point - have they tried to get a Tennessee address? I know of one case of a man living near a state line who had his address in one state, but actually resided in an adjacent state. It caused minor legal complications, but nothing that couldn't be dealt with.

[DugwayDuke]

Thanks for the link. Only got one hit in the entire state, must be a match.

I don't know if they've tried for a Tennessee address. The easement begins in Tennessee and they have a road name assigned by that state. Still, the Madison County commission should follow their policy which quite clearly says that any landholder contiguous to the easement has a right to a house number. I think these families intend to fight for their rights rather than give in.

[Libertina]

OK Now I see taht it was the county's lawyer who told them not to discuss it. Figures... Though that gives a clear picture of a poorly funtioning commission. It is their responsibility to assist the citizens, not push the government entity.

That's one reason why the relationship of the county attorneys and the land trust of north alabama is so suspicious.
Some back room land dealing going on? I sincerely wish you luck, Dugway. I have recently begun a job working with local government and have moments of both being pleased and appalled.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!

[Triple Word Score]

It is not in the county's best interest to prevent people from increasing their property values. If there are recall mechanisms to get these bozos replaced with public servants who will do their jobs, that, not just litigation, would be a great next step. I know the odds of getting their financial interest in this matter investigated are slim and none.

Good luck to your family. I hope they get their construction started reasonably soon. I hate the thought that all over the country, the economy is being hamstrung like this.

No, you can't pursue your dreams, no you can't implement your plans, no you can't invest in this or that to create jobs and innovative new products and services...

...but rape somebody, and you'll get probation and the state will support your girlfriend and her children....

[DugwayDuke]

"It is not in the county's best interest to prevent people from increasing their property values."

Of course, there are some who disagree with that. There are those who want to forestall any and all construction, all in the interest of preserving the environment of course.

Oh, my in-laws will see this thru. There are amazing people and very determined to preserve their rights as well as the right of others. I'm sure they could work out a compromise that would give them their house numbers but they want to ensure that any others in their situation don't have to compromise thier rights.

[DugwayDuke]

It's been a long time since I first started this thread and it's time for an update.

Essentially, the letter from the county commission stated that they couldn't locate the right of way connecting the property to the private road. We initiated a survey and had deeds recorded that incorporated the right of way. We then reapplied for the house numbers in August. After receiving no response, we reappeared before the county commission (twice). Some one on the county commission (I don't know exactly which commissioner intervened with the county attorney but the attorney's comments indicated that at least one had.) We now have our house numbers.

The county commission has decried that a committee of 'interested' parties will meet in January to address the policy for granting house numbers.

There were two issues from the commissions perspective. First, they want the authority to zone the county, something that has been refused by the state legislature and which lost soundly in a referendum. Second, the county wants to limit growth where that growth would be inconvienient for the county to provide services. We had to agree that the county would not be obligated to provide basic services such as trash pickup and 9/11 services.

[PAR35]

Thanks for the update. Glad they got what they needed. Interesting legal question as to whether the county can contract away its obligations to provide emergency services. (And one that I don't know the answer to.)

[WildTurkey]

You can build it, but the power company won't hook you up without a final inspection. Without a building permit, you can't get the inspection. Without a house number you can't get a building permit. The families involved consider electricity to be a somewhat necessary convienience.

In many districts, they will force you to tear it down if there is no recorded permit.

[RightWhale]

Sounds like a case of illegal subdivision. Do it right.

[RightWhale]

It sounds sort of resolved, but unfortunately simply issuing house numbers is a pragmatic act for safety reasons not associated with legally subdividing the land. The county officials do not understand their position function.

[1rudeboy]

In a perfect world, one would simply walk in to the proper office and say, "No house number? No property tax."

[Hat-Trick]

We had to agree that the county would not be obligated to provide basic services such as trash pickup and 9/11 services.

Glad to hear your family(s) got their house numbers and can get on with their plans. I don't see any problem with the above as long as they don't restrict your ability to burn your garbage or keep and bear firearms. The latter part regarding 911 services - are those services reporting services (answering a 911 call), or response services - as in they won't be able to send an officer to the reporting location? I doubt you'd get very far with this bunch of bureacrats by asking for an appropriate reduction in property taxes because of the reduced level of services they are providing.

[cowtowney]

A ninety eight year old man from Maine (aka a Maineiac) was sitting on his front porch early one spring morning when a man walked up to him and asked,“ Are you Mr. Lawrence Pinkum?”

“Aayah, I’m him,” came back a rather slow reply.

“I’m afraid I have some very bad news for you, Mr. Pinkum. I have just surveyed your property and you don’t live in the state of Maine. In fact, you live in New Hampshire.”

The surveyor was sure this would upset the old gent and was quite surprised when the senior Maineiac replied, “Thank God for that. I don’t think I could stand another Maine winter.”

[DugwayDuke]

No, they cannot "contract away" their obligations. For example, the provision of 911 services is a federal mandate.

The real issue is that the county didn't want us to build there but had no legal basis to deny the house numbers. If the local voters had not had the foresight to deny the county commission zoning authority, they would simply had zoned this land as non-residential and we not be allowed to build on our property.

[DugwayDuke]

What's an illegal subdivision?

[DugwayDuke]

"The county officials do not understand their position function."

It's all about zoning. This states constitution does not give power to zone to the county commission. The county commission wants that power and were using the issuance of house numbers as a means of defacto zoning. If they didn't want you to build in an area, then they would simply refuse the house number. An ammendment to the constitution to give zoning power to this county's commission was soundly defeated a couple of years ago.

[DugwayDuke]

"In a perfect world, one would simply walk in to the proper office and say, "No house number? No property tax.""

When they said 'they couldn't locate the property" we asked if that meant they wouldn't know were to send the tax notice. They admitted that they would figure that out.