Suit looms over house numbers

The Huntsville (Alabama) Times ^ | 03/06/04 | STEVE NOWOTTNY

[DugwayDuke]

long-running property dispute on the Tennessee state line looks likely to go to court, after a group of landowners said this week that the Madison County Commission has still not answered their concerns.

Lisa Potter, spokeswoman for the group, told Friday's meeting of the commission that she had been trying to get a house number for her land for two years. "I am going to file a lawsuit on Monday," she said.

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County Attorney Julian Butler, Commission Chairman Mike Gillespie and Commissioner Roger Jones, who is responsible for northeast Madison County, cited the threat of litigation in declining to comment on the group's complaint.

The dispute centers on several hundred acres of land on Hale Mountain, an undeveloped part of the county northeast of New Market and bordering Tennessee. The land lies in Alabama, but is only accessible by road from Tennessee.

Potter, her parents Bill and Peggy Hopkins, and family friend George Bailey say they need house numbers to get building permits, which they require to develop the property. Potter, who bought 40 acres from her parents, wants to build a house where she, her husband and two children can live; the Hopkinses want to build their retirement home.

Potter said in an interview Thursday that since she first approached the county department that handles house numbering in late 2001, she has been told different things by different county employees and county attorneys - and given nothing in writing.

Eventually, she said, the county offered the group two house numbers right at the state line, but on the condition that no more could ever be issued. Peggy Hopkins took one, but the other remains unclaimed.

"If I accepted that house number, I'd be land-locking all the other landowners who wouldn't ever be able to get a house number," said Potter.

"We can't do nothing without house numbers," said George Bailey. "It's against the Constitution of the United States - they're trying to deprive us of the benefits of our land."

In a heated exchange at Friday's meeting, Potter criticized County Attorney Julian Butler, who had promised to send her lawyer a written explanation at the last commission meeting on Feb. 23.

"As of yesterday, no one had heard anything," said Potter. "If his reason why I can't have my house number is as simple as he says it is, I don't see why I can't get a response."

Butler said at Friday's meeting that a six-page letter had been drafted by a member of his staff on Feb. 24, and would be sent on Monday. He would not comment further.

"Ms. Potter has threatened litigation," he said. "Because she has threatened litigation, I think we should handle this lawyer to lawyer."

Commissioner Mo Brooks, who told Potter at Friday's meeting that it might be possible to engineer a compromise allocating house letters instead of numbers, said later that the case was complex.

"It complicates matters that there is not a road from the state of Alabama that goes through the state of Alabama to this property," he said. "I hope that they will be able to resolve it short of litigation. But sometimes you have to have litigation to figure out what the law is."

The group has retained a lawyer, Bruce Ables, who, in a letter to Butler on Feb. 17, warned that if the group was not awarded house numbers, they would file suit and "ask the judge to order the Madison County Department of Public Works to issue the house numbers, which I have no doubt the court will do."

Potter, meanwhile, said that if the lawsuit is successful, she plans to sue for damages. "They think we're just a group of poor stupid rednecks who can't afford to hire an attorney, and that we're just blowing smoke," she said. "There are a lot of landowners in Madison County that are in the same boat, and I don't think they realize it."

[DugwayDuke]

The Hopkins and Potters are my in-laws. My in-laws have owned this property for 20+ years and now they want to build on it. The county is holding up their application for a house number. Without a house number you can't build even if you own the property. One you can't build a home on your own property, property rights become meaningless.

[DugwayDuke]

If you have a property rights ping list, I would appreciate a mention of this thread on that list.

[squidly]

Huntsville bump

[netmilsmom]

Wow!

[PAR35]

Could you post the letter when it is received? (Perhaps you could set up an inexpensive web site to track this matter). I would be interested in reading the "simple" 6 page explanation as to why two numbers could be issued, but other numbers couldn't be.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[Libertina]

Good luck. If your county Planning & Land Mangaement is anything like my Planning and Land Mangement, your in for a rough road. I would contact my district county council representative. The county councils usually decide on funding for the county departments and therefore ahve some influence. I would also contact the County Executive. ALL in nice ways of course. Ticking them off won't help.

[Carry_Okie]

So, the people you have to see in Tennessee for a an road encroachment permit and addrss don't get a nickel of the taxes because the house is in Alabama? Man, this is nasty.

[DugwayDuke]

I'l like to make a promise to post that opinion. However, this is the second time the county has promised this "simple" explanation. The county has a two year track record of making statements and refusing to put anything in writting.

The two families involved belive that one of the reasons they haven't been able to build upon their land is the Land Trust of North Alabama and Huntsville. There is reason to belive that one of the attorneys advising the county on this matter is a member of the board of this land trust. The first property listed for "preservation" is Hale Mountain where this property is located. So you have an attorney for the county advising the county commissioners not to allow development on a piece of property the Land Trust on which he is a board member wants to aquire. One might think this is a conflict of interest.

This land trust has taken the mission of "preserving land in it's natural state" and combating "sprawl". I've attached a link to their "greenprint for growth". You'll find it's filled with the usual environmentalist call to limit property rights and growth. Here's the link:

http://www.landtrust-hsv.org/greenprint_for_growth.htm

I wouldn't be posting this on FreeRepublic were it a simple matter of a dispute over house numbers. This is nothing more than an attempt by a group of environmentalists to limit property rights in the interest of protecting the environment.

[DugwayDuke]

Tennessee is not the issue. The families have a deeded easement leading from a public road in Tennessee into and across their property. The state of Tennessee acknoledges this easement. However, the Madison County in Alabama claims the easement doesn't exist even though it is recorded in Alabama. There is much more to this than property easements and house numbers. Please see my post number nine discussing the involvement of the Land Trust Of North Alabama and Huntsville.

[DugwayDuke]

Friday was the second time the families have appeared before the board of county commissioners. The county attorney has each time advised the board not to talk about the matter in the public forum of their regular meeting.

[Carry_Okie]

Thanks, it makes more sense now. From the article, something didn't add up other than simple bureaucratic disinterest.

Is there any way of establishing that conflict of interest? Seems such would render the attorney liable to be sued and both the County and the Land Trust with him. Thems are some deep pockets, especially if you can identify the foundations funding the trust. When they've got more to lose than you do there is opportunity to get something to shake loose.

What might be the profit interest supporting that non-profit trust (there almost always is one)? Are there any mineral resources in that area? Water rights?

[samantha]

Send this to Motormouth o'reilly and to Brit Hume.

[Libertina]

Have you tired a one on one meeting with the Commissioner representing your district? Sheesh these beaurocrats make life difficult. You'd think a prize was involved...

[Libertina]

But sometimes you have to have litigation to figure out what the law is.
That is one scary quote...

[DugwayDuke]

The attorney (whose name I won't mention here) is listed as a member of the board of directors of the land trust. The land trust confirms that an attorney by that name is on their board.

There will be lawsuits over this matter. As Mrs. Potter said in the article: "Potter, meanwhile, said that if the lawsuit is successful, she plans to sue for damages. "They think we're just a group of poor stupid rednecks who can't afford to hire an attorney, and that we're just blowing smoke,".

It's a shame that the Huntsville Times on-line addition doesn't include photographs. There were two excellent photos accompanying the article. One of Lisa Potter in front of the gate to the property. The second is of her parents, the Hopkins. In this picture, Mr. Hopkins is holding a copy of the "greenprint" published by the land trust during the interview by the Huntsville Times.

[DugwayDuke]

The county attorney, Mr. Butler, has advised the county commissioners not to speak to the families or to address this issue in public.

[DugwayDuke]

Yes, that is a scary quote. But is it very misleading as well. The county policy on issuing house numbers is quite clear. There is simply nothing to litigate other than the refusal of the county to follow their own published policy.

Here's the official county policy.

In January, 1987, Madison county passed a resolution that required a minimum 30 foot access to a public road prior to the issuance of a house number.

In December of 1993, the county passed a resolution ammending that resolution to "authorize the Madison County Department of Public Works to assign a house number to a lot or tract of land located along or contiguous to an access easement, right-of-way or right of ingress or egress, public or private, of at least thirty feet (30') in width.

According to the official policy of the county, every land owner with 30 feet of frontage on the existing easement have a right to a house number. One can only question why the county is so blatantly ignoring their own policy. That's one reason why the relationship of the county attorneys and the land trust of north alabama is so suspicious.

[secretagent]

I can't see why they should need a permit to build a house, numbers or not.

If they want to risk it falling down, let them.

[DugwayDuke]

O'Rielly might work. Also, I was thinking about Sean Hannity who used to live in Huntsville, he got his start in broadcasting on our local talk radio station. He'll be here in a week or so. I was also thinking about Neal Bortz.