Adoption - Lost in the Gay Marriage Debate

[Joe Republc]

A brief comment:

- I almost never see adoptions discussed in the current gay marriage debate.

- Many people see no harm in same sex marriage - who gets hurt?

- Common sense tells you kids need a committed Mom and Dad. The vast majority of objective social science studies confirm this.

- The state must bear responsibility for placing kids in the best homes possible for kids.

- There are many, many married couples on very long waiting lists for kids.

- If and when we legalize same-sex 'marriages', adoption agencies will be pressed in the name of unfair discrimination to place kids with gay couples.

- Most gay relationships don't last very long.

- Most gay relationships are not monogamous.

- Gays households are more likely to have domestic violence.

- No doubt there are gays in loving, committed relationships. Sorry, they shouldn't get kids. If they had kids from a previous relationship, the state probably can't or shouldn't do anything about it.

Sex / procreation / childrearing are designed to be tightly woven, working together to make adults more complete and to give children love, security, and guidance. Gay relationships are based on a broken view of sex. Gay adoptions are based on the distorted, selfish view that every person deserves kids.

It's wrong, and pretending same-sex marriage is OK is a horrible idea.

-- Joe

P.S. How would you have liked for your Mom to have been a dad?

[King Black Robe]

I agree. But the reality is, most states have allowed gays to adopt -- much of it done below the radar -- and be foster parents. Not only that, you would be shocked if you researched just how many juvenile justice and/or treatment facilities are run largely by homosexuals. I am not kidding. And people do not know unless they have reason to come into contact with these people. Even then, they tend to think it is an anomaly. Under the cover of legal restrictions on juvenile public records, horrible things are happening all over this country.

Now, gays argue "we already have children and then need us to be married." It's appalling. Every one of those kids, of course, has a mother and a father. Every one of those gay couples came into this world the heterosexual way. No matter how much they pretend that it is normal, the connecting fiber of human existence -- past and future -- is heterosexuality. Nature has not equated it, why should we?

[Peach]

Time and again the homosexual community is given an opportunity to condemn the predatory and radicals within the movement, and they do not condemn them. Heterosexuals have spoken out loudly and clearly about the pedophiles and homosexuals who abused young boys in the Catholic Church and in the Boy Scouts. Absent condemnation of the predatory radicals, parents have been left to wonder why homosexual activists are tireless in their efforts to use the courts to force open the doors of the Boy Scouts to homosexual troop leaders

A review of some studies regarding this matter reveals the following:

In 1972, the Gay Rights Platform reveals the movement advocates that government “repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” The founding member of NAMBLA and former president of New York’s Gay Activists Alliance, David Thorstad, says homosexual activists have suppressed discussion of pedophilia in order “to sanitize the image of homosexuality to facilitate its entrance into the social mainstream.” Reporter Carl Maves writes in The Advocate that many homosexual men have been initiated into their sexuality by molestation at a young age.

Although a study in 1994 (Jenny, Roesler & Poyer) demonstrated that more men who abused children were heterosexual, which would not be surprising given the considerably larger heterosexual population, another study by Dr. Paul Cameron (Erickson, Walbek and Seely) identified 86% of child molesters as homosexual or bisexual.

The Journal of the American Medical Association in 1998 published a study showing adolescent boys who were sexually abused by men were up to seven times more likely to identify themselves as homosexual or bisexual.

The National Association on Research and Therapy of Homosexuality found that homosexual males were “three times more likely than straight men to engage in adult-child sexual relations.”

Clinical psychologist A. Nicholas Groth, director of a sex offender program in Connecticut, said 85% of the pedophiles were themselves sexually assaulted as young boys.

[Peach]

My published letter to the editor regarding this matter:

Despite Bill Clinton’s signature of the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which was designed to establish a legal definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman, the issue of gay marriage has reared its ugly head.

I say ugly because the radical gay agenda is about recruitment of our children, lowering the legal age of sexual consent and removing the cultural taboos regarding pedophilia. Gay marriage will provide access to children that was previously not available to the radicals within the movement.

Among the many books available about the subject, one of the most informative is Tammy Bruce’s best selling book The Death of Right and Wrong. Bruce is a liberal lesbian and former president of the Los Angeles chapter of NOW as well as a national columnist and television commentator. She has worked with Congress to change the Department of Education’s support for the radical gay agenda and is an outspoken advocate against the radicals who are actively working with judicial activists who subvert the laws currently in place in our country and harm our children. Her book outlines the grab for our children and how the radicals are going about fulfilling their desires.

Bruce’s book is well researched and quotes directly from dozens of outspoken advocates of the gay agenda as well as policy setters within the Department of Education. One such quote is from Judith Levine, author and activist: “sex is not harmful to children…there are ways the smallest children can partake in it.”

Research on this topic is readily available and much of what the agenda proposes is unprintable in a family newspaper, but a review of some material provides the following:

1. In Vermont, a program was instituted called Outright Vermont. Vermont schools advertise this program on bulletin boards and the materials contain links to web sites which lead to adult gay male porn web sites. Last year, New York City opened the first gay high school in the nation; one has to wonder what the curriculum looks like.

2. Former Governor Gray Davis of California signed a sex education law that requires students to adopt a healthy attitude toward homosexuality. The National Education Association has been developing programs to incorporate the gay agenda into our public schools for children of all ages. Many programs have been in place for over 20 years and the curricula is getting more radical each year. In addition, the NEA is trying to force state governments to require both home-schoolers and private schools to teach pro-gay agendas or refuse to validate their diplomas. Not content with the 20 year old curricula Heather Has Two Mommies, now the NEA has successfully sponsored a curriculum which some schools have adopted that requires children to partake in “Gay Day’ which involves playacting.

3. In March 2002, Penn State University featured an advocate of pedophilia at a women’s health conference, despite congressional disapproval and parental concerns.

4. In 1998 the American Psychological Association claimed that pedophilia often “does not cause intense harm on a pervasive basis.” (Tell that to the young boys who were molested by priests).

5. The North American Man Boy Love Assoc. (NAMBLA,) is a regularly quoted member of the gay movement and pedophile themes abound in their literature. Their web site quotes “…instead of condemning pedophiles for their involvement with lesbian and gay youth, we should be supporting them.” The gay movement does not condemn these comments or ask that the Association refrain from attaching itself to their agenda.

6. The taboo against adult-child sex is eroding and the New York Times and other “cultural elite” press regularly praise literary works containing pedophilia relationships. One of hundreds of examples: Poet Allen Ginsberg was a homosexual, pedophile and member of NAMBLA. His poetry contained explicit references to pedophilia and yet when he died in 1997, journalists praised him as an icon whose poetry was without rival.

Researchers differ on the numbers, but approximately 25% of gay men report they were molested as children which they blame for setting them on the road to homosexuality. This is not to paint all gays as having predatory motives, but I believe that gay marriage will provide an access to children through adoption that is unprecedented and dangerous. And yet, we are told that praying in school is dangerous to our kids. Moral relativism is standing on its head.

[GrandMoM]

))))))PING(((((((

[RonHolzwarth]

Why don't we hear a huge uproar about the immorality of having SEX outside of MARRIAGE?

Isn't the SILENCE concerning this subject DEAFENING???

[breakem]

Most gay relationships don't last very long.

- Most gay relationships are not monogamous.

Perhaps marriage will positively impact the statistics here, whatever they are. And also the health of homosexuals.

[breakem]

Thank you for introducing pedophilia on a thread discussing adult marriage.

[Peach]

We aren't discussing just adult marriage. We are discussing gay marriage.

The words I used are mostly not my own. You will see most if not all comments regarding pedophilia are direct quotes.

[breakem]

The words are quotes not your own,

And that means...............

I was responding to you changing the subject. Gay marriage is for those who can engage in contracts. You introduced the subject of sex with prepubescent children. Either you believe in what you posted or you don't Have a spine and stand up.

[Peach]

Gay marriage, which is what we are discussing, will legitimize the adoption of our children.

Considering the radicals own words, I'd say that pedophilia and the agenda of lowering the age of sexual consent has EVERY place in this discussion.

You either did not read the letters I posted or are being deliberately obtuse if you do not see the connection between gay marriage and the danger it poses to legitimizing the adoption of children.

[Joe Republc]

"...Why don't we hear a huge uproar about the immorality of having SEX outside of MARRIAGE?

Isn't the SILENCE concerning this subject DEAFENING???"


Yep. And sex outside of marriage is wrong. Something in my 40+ years of life I've only recently started realizing.

Like most folks, I messed around a bit before marriage, including with the woman who became my spouse.

As I've become more serious about Christianity, and about social issues like abortion, homosexuality, moral relativism, and more, I've come to realize how costly the break between marriage and sex has been in our culture.

Most (all?) of the people reading this probably haven't been sexually pure, and might not be all that bothered by things like pre-marital sex and pornography.

But about 50% of teenagers have STDs. More women die of cervical cancer than AIDS. Much of that is caused by STDs. Janet Jackson's striptease didn't come out of a vacuum. Gay tolerance is the inevitable progression of overall sexual immorality most of us have accepted.

I know that sounds horribly prude and old-fashioned. But that's just the way it is.

-- Joe

[breakem]

Maybe this will be a little less obtuse for you:

The "radicals" do not represent all homosexuals. You make the mistake that zealots like scripter and little jeremiah make. You equate all homosexuals with the most radical, and use that position to deny homosexuals equal protection under the law and to rally folks against anything homosexuals advocate. You cite the homosexual agenda which includes children's issue, to deny equal access to governmental services and benefits for millions of taxpayers, and you avoid the logical errors pointed out in your post by blaming it on quotes.

I asked a simple question. Might not marriage have a postive impact on homosexuals and society just as it does on heterosexuals. Would you care to respond and eloborate a position on my original point?

[Peach]

Your original point was not made anywhere that I can see so I'm still not sure what you think you were asking previously.

As to this question: Can gay marriage have a positive effect on society? No.

Did you read any of the stats I provided on homosexual pedophilia? And you want to give them MORE access to children?

Not me.

Go try a little societal experimentation on your own kids.

[Joe Republc]

"...I asked a simple question. Might not marriage have a postive impact on homosexuals and society just as it does on heterosexuals. Would you care to respond and eloborate a position on my original point?"

At the risk of getting slammed by many who otherwise agree with me, I might be willing to go with 'civil unions', to allow any two people to have legal status for their permanent relationship.

But I don't want marriage re-defined. And I want anyone, especially states, foster agencies, adoption agencies, schools, ANYONE DEALING WITH KIDS, to legally discriminate between the true marriage vs. other relationships.

-- Joe

[breakem]

I think adoption should analyse all the applicants and make the best decision. Dennis Prager has said there is evidence that a father and mother in the home is best for the kid. I have no reason to disbelieve him and it suits what my intuition tells me. However, we know two homosexual couples, all women, 1 of which has a kid. These people seem like good parents to me and we know them very well.

I think the adoption folks should be able to assess applicants and go for the best choice. In some cases that might include homosexuals.

I don't agree with the breed em to turn him crowd.

[Mygirlsmom]

Nice try. But it doesn't work that way. History proves it. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1064217/posts

[breakem]

I have read some of the "research" posted by scripter and lj and most of it does not apply the scientific method. Your screed against homosexuals as pedophilias does not make sense from my own knowledge and of that of people I know and trust.

If you want want me to believe that homos want to have kids so that they can have sex with them, I'd say you're a lot sicker than they.

I guess you still equate all homosexuals with the most radical amongst them. Pity! If I did that to you, you'd hit the abuse button.

[breakem]

History?

[breakem]

As to this question: Can gay marriage have a positive effect on society? No.

Don't want to neglect this little gem. Your answer is underwhelming. If it makes homos more faithful and monogamous, wouldn't that lead to better health and wouldn't that be better for society. Or is it just better for heteros. And homos are immune to the benefit.