Man repels 3 robbers by firing hidden pistol

St Louis Post Dispatch ^ | 03/11/04 | Heather Ratcliffe

[Itzlzha]

"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

"Things are like this are going to happen," Kirkton said. "Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometime they won't."

Which begs the question as to just WHO Jeanne Kirkton considers the "Good Guys"...considering she is opposed to those who do NOT commit crimes being able to defend themselves, my supposition is she likes the CRIMINALS armed, and the rest as Serfs to her and her Liberal Intellegensia!

[ought-six]

"I agree though, .22 is a fairly miserable caliber for self defense."

Yup. It sure wouldn't be my choice. At home, it's a 12-gauge pump shotgun and a .357 magnum. We don't have CCW here in Illinois. In Chicago (where I thankfully do not live), it's illegal to even OWN a handgun. But in the western burbs, where people are still somewhat free citizens, we stiil have the right of self-defense. Self-defense is illegal in Chicago. That's probably why Chicago was ranked the #1 murder capitol of America last year. The perps know their victims are disarmed as a matter of law.

[Freedom2specul8]

Just dang!!! Awesome!

[BSunday]

This man clearly must be arrested. Nobody but Diane Feinstein's body guards should be allowed to have a gun. /sarcasm

[IGOTMINE]

"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

This woman typifies the "grass-eater" breed.

[tahiti]

"(Ropbert) McCulloch said that, technically, motorists do not have the right to carry weapons in their vehicles until the court's decision is final."

Bob, I strongly disagree.

Missouri Constitution

Article I, Section 23

”That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms for the defense of his home, person, or property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned;"

If this citizen had his "arm" not concealed, let's say in a holster on his hip, then he would be constitutionally guaranteed the right to "bear arms for the defense of his...person, or property," even while being in his vehicle.

If you cannot "bear arms" in your vehicle, then how can you exert your right to defend your "person, or property" against an attack by thugs?

Bob would be correct if he is talking about "concealed" arms only. But I do not think he is trying to limit his remarks to concealed arms only.

[myheroesareDeadandRegistered]

"A .22 in the hand is better than a .44 at home".

I remember, back about 10 years ago, hearing about an elderly retired school teacher in Birmingham, Al. who halted a barber shop robbery with a .22 Derringer. Two bullets, two head shots.

No joke, after the perps robbed everybody he sent one to the morgue and one to the hospital. The robbers told the them all to lay face down. He assumed the robbers were going to kill them, execution style, so he went for broke.

[AnAmericanMother]

We had a barber here that foiled a robbery of his shop - he kept a .32 auto in the cash drawer. Killed one goblin stone cold dead, and shot the other guy's left eye out.

Just to add to the general fun and amusement, the D.A. charged "Blinky," the survivor, with armed robbery and aggravated assault. He was convicted, and the case went up on appeal on the interesting question of whether the robbery was completed when the barber dropped his cash on the floor, since he hadn't surrendered the money direct to the robber (the shooting started after that.) (In Georgia, the answer is "Yes. Go to jail, go directly to jail. Do not pass 'Go', do not collect $200. And put some ice on that eye.")

[Mulder]

Gun opponents said such incidents raise concerns

"Concerns" like thugs might not be able to prey upon unarmed and defenseless victims anymore?

[Mulder]

All you really have to do is chamber a round if you don't carry chambered...the sound of that slide dropping is often all the gun you need....

That's a bad idea. I don't know of any American gun expert that recommends it.

Most gun fights occur at very close distances, and as such there may be neither the time nor the opportunity to rack the slide.

[7.62 x 51mm]

I *really* like my Kimber Eclipse Target II 1911A1 .45cal ACP 5" full-frame. With either 165gr Corbon HPs or 230gr FMJs, a perp isn't going to recover from any wounds.

[pending]

News flash, Jeanne: If someone is pointing a deadly weapon at you, it's an appropriate time to choose a self-defense tactic such a brandishing or using your own weapon. Running away has not proven to be a particularly successful defense tactic. Where do they get these morons?

Coneheads "we come from France"

[slowry]

Mr. Rutherford needs to get a bigger gun

I doubt anybody should stake their life on any easily concealable handgun dropping the bad guy 100% of the time, unless you're able to empty the clip into them with some accuracy. To really be sure, bring a 30.06 or 12 gauge. (My point being that this guy had something much more dangerous than his opponent's BB gun.)

I've read reports about .45 ACP bouncing off skulls, and .38 spl is considered substandard by many, perhaps the same for 9mm.

I thought people would be offering their congratulations to this fellow who had the wherewithal to act with (as far as he knew) a quite deadly weapon pointed at him. Another person in his place might have been occupied with filling their shorts at that moment.

Instead it's ".22LR is wimpy, bla bla bla." Who volunteers to stand in front of one?

As Sean Connery said in The Untouchables, Rutherford "went home alive."

Even Carlos Hathcock didn't always drop people with one hit, or even two.

[barker]

Some time target shooting wouldn't hurt either.

[AnAmericanMother]

The only case I know of of a .45 slug bouncing off somebody's skull happened to my dad.

It was in WWII, he was guarding a group of prisoners in the stockade, and an American soldier accused of rape of an Italian civilian made a break for it. Dad shouted for him to halt, he didn't, Dad aimed at his feet and shot him in the back of the head. It was military ball ammo, extreme range, and the guy had a hard skull, the bullet skimmed around the skull under the skin and lodged in his forehead. It nevertheless knocked him off his feet and out cold.

The IG came wandering around awhile later to see if my dad had violated the guy's civil rights by shooting him in the head, but eventually determined that he hadn't.

It's not the usual result of a .45 hit though. Friend of mine who fought the Chicoms in Korea said that every single time he shot a Chinese soldier with a .45 it dropped him dead in his tracks.

[AnAmericanMother]

All you're doing is playing the averages. A .45 has a higher percentage of stop/drop hits than a .22, but your mileage may vary.

I have in fact been shot by a .22 Tenex round (by an idiot in the next rifle station at summer camp) and it barely penetrated the skin under my T-shirt. (I was sure for about 15 seconds that I had been killed, but that's another story.)

I don't think anybody here disagrees that a .22 in your pocket is better than a .44 Mag you left at home, but all other things being equal, Mr. Rutherford needs to up his caliber as far as he comfortably can. Next time he might not be so lucky.

But most criminals (other than the psychos and the crackheads) are essentially cowards, and the mere fact of fighting back will cause most of them to run. (It's the other ones you need to worry about.)

[xone]

When the Mossad assassinated the planner of the Munich Olympic masscre, the three shooter used suppressed .22s. When the guy's head was gone, they finished their mags into his heart area. 30 .22 rnds = dead terrorist. Shooting ability no doubt played a large part.

[teeman8r]

scissors cut paper, paper covers rock, bb gun beats paper, .22 beats bb gun, .45 beats .22, .50 bmg beats all...

that shoot out between the .22 and bb gun could have taken all day... and the guy on the bus stop a block away, was never concerned...

t

[archy]

I doubt anybody should stake their life on any easily concealable handgun dropping the bad guy 100% of the time, unless you're able to empty the clip into them with some accuracy. To really be sure, bring a 30.06 or 12 gauge. (My point being that this guy had something much more dangerous than his opponent's BB gun.)

I've read reports about .45 ACP bouncing off skulls, and .38 spl is considered substandard by many, perhaps the same for 9mm.

There are far too many variables of weapon, ammunition and target condition, shot placement, and many other factors.

When an armed attacker came to kill everyone at the rural residence a ladyfriend and I were babysitting for a couple of our friends on their honeymoon, I hit him twice in the head with my Browning 9mm for certain, possibly three and maybe with all four. He also fired four at me, two of which missed, one which burned me just very slightly, and one of which struck me in my Kevlar vest just beneath the heart. Blood was pouring across his face and into his eyes. He dropped his weapon and went back into the woods next door from where he'd come. Not knowing if he had friends along and waiting, I let him leave, recovered his carbine and waited for our local sheriff, who'd been called and arrived a half hour or so later.

My lady friend was waiting inside the house with my pump shotgun, told that under no circumstances did I intend to come inside, and if anyone attempted entry, she could assume it wasn't me.

When I worked as an armored car messenger making frequent deliveries to the St Louis Federal Reserve Bank, my usual to carry weapons were a .45 Colt Commander and an Ingram M10 machine pistol. I never needed to use them on the job.

[r9etb]

Instead it's ".22LR is wimpy, bla bla bla." Who volunteers to stand in front of one?

Well, I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of one. However, if it were me doing the shooting, I really don't think I'd want to be packing something that, even after I plug the perp several times, still allows him the option of running away like this one did. If he can run, he can also decide to stand and fire back.