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Man repels 3 robbers by firing hidden pistol
St Louis Post Dispatch ^ | 03/11/04 | Heather Ratcliffe

Posted on 03/12/2004 8:24:53 AM PST by kt56

Edited on 05/11/2004 5:36:40 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Robbers pointed a gun at Bryan Rutherford and demanded that he hand over valuables from his pickup Tuesday evening in Lemay.

Rutherford didn't pull out cash or jewelry. He pulled out a .22-caliber pistol hidden in his vehicle and opened fire in what authorities believe is the first instance of self-defense with a concealed firearm since the Missouri Legislature loosened the state's gun laws.


(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; concealedcarry; guns; selfdefense
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1 posted on 03/12/2004 8:24:53 AM PST by kt56
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To: kt56
The man holding what turned out to be a BB gun on Rutherford was hit several times in the torso before he and two accomplices fled.

What that tells me is, Mr. Rutherford needs to get a bigger gun. The whole point of shooting a fellow is to take him out of action as quickly as possible.

2 posted on 03/12/2004 8:29:37 AM PST by r9etb
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To: kt56
authorities believe is the first instance of self-defense with a concealed firearm since the Missouri Legislature loosened the state's gun laws.

Don't bet on it......a lot of cases where a ccw is used to stop a crime are never reported.

3 posted on 03/12/2004 8:31:04 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: r9etb
What that tells me is, Mr. Rutherford needs to get a bigger gun.

You know what they say, "A .22 in hand is better than a .44 at home."

I agree though, .22 is a fairly miserable caliber for self defense.

4 posted on 03/12/2004 8:32:36 AM PST by AreaMan
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To: kt56
Bobby Washington Jr., 19, of St. Louis County, ran several yards and collapsed where police found him. Washington, of the 1700 block of Dellwood Court, was expected to recover from his wounds, police said.

Time to upgrade to a .45

5 posted on 03/12/2004 8:34:08 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: *bang_list
Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!
6 posted on 03/12/2004 8:35:58 AM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism.)
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To: kt56
If your gunna use a .22 it's best to empty on the head if possible. If the bad guy has a thick skull, at least it'll give him a good headache. Or the middle of the ten ring, if you got time.
7 posted on 03/12/2004 8:36:25 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf (I failed anger management class, they decided to give me a passing grade anyway)
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To: kt56
He pulled out a .22-caliber pistol hidden in his vehicle and opened fire in what authorities believe is the first instance of self-defense with a concealed firearm since the Missouri Legislature loosened the state's gun laws.....

Bobby Washington Jr., 19, of St. Louis County, ran several yards and collapsed where police found him. Washington, of the 1700 block of Dellwood Court, was expected to recover from his wounds, police said.

If he had used a .45 cal, there would not be anyone expecting to recover from wounds.

I like his MO,

Shoot first
Ask questions later.

8 posted on 03/12/2004 8:37:34 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (I have more time in the chow line than John f'ing Kerry spent in Vietnam.)
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To: kt56
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

"Things are like this are going to happen," Kirkton said. "Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometime they won't."

Unless you disarm the good guys, in which case the bad guys always win. Thanks for making my point, Ms Kirkton.

9 posted on 03/12/2004 8:37:50 AM PST by magslinger (Gun control laws are like OSHA for criminals-Thomas Sowell)
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To: kt56
Robbers pointed a gun at Bryan Rutherford .....
He pulled out a .22-caliber pistol .....
Rutherford was uninjured.....

Nuff Said..............
10 posted on 03/12/2004 8:42:02 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (No more rhyming, and I mean it! ..Anybody got a peanut.....)
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To: magslinger
"Sometimes the good guys are goona win and sometimes they're gonna lose". The good guys will lose ALL THE TIME, if they're not able to defend themselves.
11 posted on 03/12/2004 8:44:08 AM PST by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: magslinger
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March.

So, this is all the lefties have to offer, "Run away, run away..."
I wonder what they would suggest to women about to be raped, "Lie back and enjoy it?"

12 posted on 03/12/2004 8:44:09 AM PST by AreaMan
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To: All
I have a 1911 and a .40 S&W, I feel confident with either one of those...,
22 cal could just get a sufficently large person even madder
13 posted on 03/12/2004 8:44:55 AM PST by kt56
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To: kt56
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March.

Someday I hope to hear Jeanne exercised her right to try to get away.

14 posted on 03/12/2004 8:50:27 AM PST by justrepublican (Screaming like a keynote speaker at a Wellstone Memorial.)
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To: AreaMan
I wonder what they would suggest to women about to be raped, "Lie back and enjoy it?"

That or "Put some ice on it." afterwards.

15 posted on 03/12/2004 8:52:28 AM PST by magslinger (Gun control laws are like OSHA for criminals-Thomas Sowell)
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To: kt56
Should have been a .45, not a .22.
16 posted on 03/12/2004 8:53:51 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Should have been a .45, not a .22.

I concur, but better a .22 he owns/can handle well, than a .45 he's saving up for/hasn't practiced with.

17 posted on 03/12/2004 9:00:04 AM PST by magslinger (Gun control laws are like OSHA for criminals-Thomas Sowell)
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To: kt56
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

Dumbass.

18 posted on 03/12/2004 9:08:30 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: kt56
Don't bring a BB gun to a gunfight. A .22 isn't exactly a showstopper either.
19 posted on 03/12/2004 9:12:17 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!)
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To: David Hunter
Robbers pointed a gun at Bryan Rutherford and demanded that he hand over valuables from his pickup Tuesday evening in Lemay.

Rutherford didn't pull out cash or jewelry. He pulled out a .22-caliber pistol hidden in his vehicle and opened fire in what authorities believe is the first instance of self-defense with a concealed firearm since the Missouri Legislature loosened the state's gun laws.

20 posted on 03/12/2004 9:14:48 AM PST by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Don't bring a sling shot to a board-with-a- nail fight. While the invader's sling shot was menacing, luckily Moe the Bartender found a board-with-a-nail and managed to save the day. (from an old Simpson's episode)
21 posted on 03/12/2004 9:18:20 AM PST by NYFriend
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To: AreaMan
You know what they say, "A .22 in hand is better than a .44 at home."

Or, like these robbers found out- a .22 is better than a BB-Gun.

22 posted on 03/12/2004 9:19:10 AM PST by Prodigal Son (Liberal ideas are deadlier than second hand smoke.)
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To: AreaMan
My smallest carry is a .32 Kel-tec. I try to keep my Glock 32 .357 Sig on me though, hit with it, and they won't run off.
23 posted on 03/12/2004 9:20:08 AM PST by Monty22
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To: r9etb
I know I could get off several rounds before the perp thought well enough to flee, but he still probably needs to get a little more impact.
24 posted on 03/12/2004 9:37:27 AM PST by School of Rational Thought
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Way back in the 1960s I read an account of attempted armed robbery of a 72 year-old courier of Bank of America in S.F. who was shot 7 times with a .22 in the head and upper torso and then proceeded to beat up his attackers and drag them to the nearby police precinct; the S.F. Chronicle may still have this in their archives.

The courier lived and confessed that he was "a tough, old bird."

25 posted on 03/12/2004 9:42:18 AM PST by Old Professer
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To: kt56
kt56 said: "22 cal could just get a sufficently large person even madder"

Any idea what the muzzle velocity range would be for various .22 cartridge types. I have fired .22 subsonic from a rifle. I was told that the charge was so low that the round was decelerating by the time it reached the muzzle. It made barely as much noise as an airgun.

I would be curious what the muzzle velocity would be for higher velocity .22 from a four inch revolver. I would certainly never volunteer to be hit by such a round.

26 posted on 03/12/2004 9:50:33 AM PST by William Tell
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To: Monty22
I subscribe to the "starts with a 4" line of thinking. I have either a .45 or a .40S&W on my hip most of the time. Still, a .22 is far better than nothing at all.

"Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometime they won't."

That is exactly the point. Once the bad guys (lazy cowards) figure out their potential victim might be packing, they will think twice before robbing someone. Prisoners being interviewed told John Stossel on his 20/20 show "Give Me a Break" that armed citizens are their #1 fear. The closed-minded libs will never get it.
27 posted on 03/12/2004 9:53:23 AM PST by txjeep
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To: William Tell
380 to 1285 fps
28 posted on 03/12/2004 9:55:10 AM PST by cinFLA
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To: kt56
Gun opponents said such incidents raise concerns. "I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

"I wonder whether he could have gotten away". Oh, goody, Ms. Kirkton. Someone is holding a gun on you, and you wonder whether or not you can get away rather than defend yourself. Is this a little bit of that "Duty to retreat" crap? Certainly, once someone has leveled a gun on you, your options are few.

29 posted on 03/12/2004 9:58:09 AM PST by .38sw
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To: kt56
Indeed...if you're shooting at someone good enough to put a FEW shots in his/her torso, they ought not to be moving anywhere....

Get a bigger gun, dude

30 posted on 03/12/2004 9:58:09 AM PST by The Wizard
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To: William Tell
Any idea what the muzzle velocity range would be for various .22 cartridge types...

I don't have any exact figures handy...however, if memory serves me right a .22LR will, at least out of a rifle barrel, develop more velocity than a typical handgun round in the .40 - .45 range.
However, the weight of the projectiles make a big difference in foot lbs delievered and therefore stopping power.

31 posted on 03/12/2004 9:58:17 AM PST by kt56
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To: Old Professer
Old Professer said: "Way back in the 1960s I read an account of attempted armed robbery of a 72 year-old courier of Bank of America in S.F. who was shot 7 times with a .22 ..."

I also recall a case of a man who was mugged and dragged himself home to clean up. He later complained of a headache and went to a hospital. Unknown to the victim, he had been shot five times in the head with a .22, each round failing to penetrate the skull and instead burrowing under the scalp.

There was conjecture that the rounds may have been quite old and defective.

32 posted on 03/12/2004 9:59:38 AM PST by William Tell
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To: Blood of Tyrants
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

News flash, Jeanne: If someone is pointing a deadly weapon at you, it's an appropriate time to choose a self-defense tactic such a brandishing or using your own weapon. Running away has not proven to be a particularly successful defense tactic.

Where do they get these morons?
33 posted on 03/12/2004 10:00:48 AM PST by Henrietta
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To: TC Rider
hear, hear...stainless steel easy to care for, all the stopping power a civilian needs, accurate as the shooter....

All you really have to do is chamber a round if you don't carry chambered...the sound of that slide dropping is often all the gun you need....

34 posted on 03/12/2004 10:01:48 AM PST by The Wizard
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To: William Tell
I saw a show on one of the cable channels, TLC, Discovery, can't remember which one where they interviewed a gang banger who had been shot with a 9mm Uzi full auto 30 times at point blank range. He took multiple hits in one leg both arms and torso and lived to tell about it..
35 posted on 03/12/2004 10:06:55 AM PST by kt56
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To: r9etb
What that tells me is, Mr. Rutherford needs to get a bigger gun. The whole point of shooting a fellow is to take him out of action as quickly as possible.

Well, yes, but a real gun trumps no gun, or a BB gun, most every time.

36 posted on 03/12/2004 10:08:51 AM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: School of Rational Thought
I know I could get off several rounds before the perp thought well enough to flee, but he still probably needs to get a little more impact.

There's no "probably" about it. He quite obviously did need more impact.

According to the article, the guy did get off several rounds, and actually hit the perp several times in the torso, and the guy still managed to run away.

What that means is, had the situation been a little different, the perp was still fully capable of shooting back. The whole point of using a gun on a bad guy is to make sure he can't shoot back. Get a bigger gun, Mr. Rutherford.

37 posted on 03/12/2004 10:13:07 AM PST by r9etb
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To: William Tell; Old Professer
True story:

My husband is the first aid officer at his job. One morning one of the laborers in the plant showed up with a .22 Short bullet lodged just under the skin between his eyes. His common law wife in the middle of an argument just lugged out the "virtue pistol" and plugged him. Hubby sent him to the industrial clinic to get it cut out - he showed back up at lunchtime with a bandaid on his face. Went home that night and threw the CLW out on the street.

Interesting sequel - about 6 months later CLW, who had taken up with someone else, got in a quarrel with HIM, only this time she pulled a kitchen knife, he wound up dead and she wound up in the pokey for murder.

Employee's comment to my husband: "She was a damn mean woman, but she sho' could cook."

38 posted on 03/12/2004 10:15:23 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment ) TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. . .)
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To: kt56
"Things are like this are going to happen," Kirkton said. "Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometimes they won't."

No kiddin', lady. And if they can't carry and the bad guys are, they'll lose ALL the time. Idiot.

Let's drop Miz Kirkton off on Metropolitan Parkway at 2 a.m. with a sign that says "Give Peace a Chance". We could make pretty good book on her chances of getting out alive.

As for me, I will continue to place my trust in the dependable products of the Colt Firearms Mfg. Co.

39 posted on 03/12/2004 10:18:20 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment ) TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. . .)
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To: kt56
"Things are like this are going to happen," Kirkton said. "Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometime they won't."

Anyone who fights back against crimminals is a WINNER!
40 posted on 03/12/2004 10:22:31 AM PST by moonman
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To: magslinger
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

"Things are like this are going to happen," Kirkton said. "Sometimes the good guys are going to win and sometime they won't."

Which begs the question as to just WHO Jeanne Kirkton considers the "Good Guys"...considering she is opposed to those who do NOT commit crimes being able to defend themselves, my supposition is she likes the CRIMINALS armed, and the rest as Serfs to her and her Liberal Intellegensia!

41 posted on 03/12/2004 10:25:45 AM PST by Itzlzha (The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote!)
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To: AreaMan
"I agree though, .22 is a fairly miserable caliber for self defense."

Yup. It sure wouldn't be my choice. At home, it's a 12-gauge pump shotgun and a .357 magnum. We don't have CCW here in Illinois. In Chicago (where I thankfully do not live), it's illegal to even OWN a handgun. But in the western burbs, where people are still somewhat free citizens, we stiil have the right of self-defense. Self-defense is illegal in Chicago. That's probably why Chicago was ranked the #1 murder capitol of America last year. The perps know their victims are disarmed as a matter of law.
42 posted on 03/12/2004 10:27:25 AM PST by ought-six
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To: kt56; bang_list; barker; GummyIII
Just dang!!! Awesome!
43 posted on 03/12/2004 10:27:38 AM PST by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
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To: kt56
This man clearly must be arrested. Nobody but Diane Feinstein's body guards should be allowed to have a gun. /sarcasm
44 posted on 03/12/2004 10:29:16 AM PST by BSunday
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
"I wonder whether (Rutherford) could have gotten away," said Jeanne Kirkton, an opponent of concealed weapons and former official of the Million Mom March. She added, "If he couldn't, this certainly seems justified as self-defense."

This woman typifies the "grass-eater" breed.
45 posted on 03/12/2004 10:30:41 AM PST by IGOTMINE (We are being incrementally criminalized by a government that does not trust us with firearms.)
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To: kt56
"(Ropbert) McCulloch said that, technically, motorists do not have the right to carry weapons in their vehicles until the court's decision is final."

Bob, I strongly disagree.

Missouri Constitution

Article I, Section 23

”That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms for the defense of his home, person, or property, or when lawfully summoned in the aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned;"

If this citizen had his "arm" not concealed, let's say in a holster on his hip, then he would be constitutionally guaranteed the right to "bear arms for the defense of his...person, or property," even while being in his vehicle.

If you cannot "bear arms" in your vehicle, then how can you exert your right to defend your "person, or property" against an attack by thugs?

Bob would be correct if he is talking about "concealed" arms only. But I do not think he is trying to limit his remarks to concealed arms only.

46 posted on 03/12/2004 10:41:35 AM PST by tahiti
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To: AreaMan
"A .22 in the hand is better than a .44 at home".

I remember, back about 10 years ago, hearing about an elderly retired school teacher in Birmingham, Al. who halted a barber shop robbery with a .22 Derringer. Two bullets, two head shots.

No joke, after the perps robbed everybody he sent one to the morgue and one to the hospital. The robbers told the them all to lay face down. He assumed the robbers were going to kill them, execution style, so he went for broke.
47 posted on 03/12/2004 10:49:37 AM PST by myheroesareDeadandRegistered
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To: myheroesareDeadandRegistered
We had a barber here that foiled a robbery of his shop - he kept a .32 auto in the cash drawer. Killed one goblin stone cold dead, and shot the other guy's left eye out.

Just to add to the general fun and amusement, the D.A. charged "Blinky," the survivor, with armed robbery and aggravated assault. He was convicted, and the case went up on appeal on the interesting question of whether the robbery was completed when the barber dropped his cash on the floor, since he hadn't surrendered the money direct to the robber (the shooting started after that.) (In Georgia, the answer is "Yes. Go to jail, go directly to jail. Do not pass 'Go', do not collect $200. And put some ice on that eye.")

48 posted on 03/12/2004 11:13:13 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment ) TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. . .)
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To: kt56
Gun opponents said such incidents raise concerns

"Concerns" like thugs might not be able to prey upon unarmed and defenseless victims anymore?

49 posted on 03/12/2004 11:33:19 AM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: The Wizard
All you really have to do is chamber a round if you don't carry chambered...the sound of that slide dropping is often all the gun you need....

That's a bad idea. I don't know of any American gun expert that recommends it.

Most gun fights occur at very close distances, and as such there may be neither the time nor the opportunity to rack the slide.

50 posted on 03/12/2004 11:37:19 AM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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