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N.M. Will Secede to New Nation, Prof. Says
Diversity Alliance for a Sustainable America / Albuquerque Tribune ^ | 02/17/00 | Frank Zoretich

Posted on 03/18/2004 11:24:24 AM PST by chronotrigger

N.M. Will Secede to New Nation, Prof. Says

By Frank Zoretich

[This article appeared in the February 17, 2000 issue of the Albuquerque Tribune, and is reprinted with permission.]

Charles Truxillo, a professor of Chicano studies at the University of New Mexico, suggests "Republica del Norte" would be a good name for a new, sovereign Hispanic nation he foresees straddling the current border between the United States and Mexico.

Truxillo predicts the creation of a Republic of the North, calling its birth within the next 80 years "an inevitability." He says the country would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado.

Stretching from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico, it would also include the northern tier of current Mexican states: Baja California, Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas.

Its capital would probably be Los Angeles.

Truxillo, 47, has said the new country should be brought into being "by any means necessary."

But in a recent interview at a coffee shop near the UNM campus, Truxillo said it was "unlikely" civil war would attend its birth.

Instead, he said, the creation of the Republic of the North will be accomplished by political process, by the "electoral pressure" of the future majority Hispanic population throughout the region rather than by violence.

"Not within the next 20 years but within 80 years," he said. "I may not live to see the Hispanic homeland, but by the end of the century my students' kids will live in it, sovereign and free."

Truxillo said it's his task to help develop a "cadre of intellectuals" to begin thinking about the practicalities of how the Republic of the North can become a reality.

In the past, of course, wars have erupted when states seceded from either parent nation including the U.S. Civil War to keep the South in the Union and, in Truxillo's quick description, "the Alamo and all that" when Texas declared itself independent of Mexico.

Truxillo said the U.S. Civil War settled the question of secession militarily but not in a legal sense. States do have the right to secede, he maintained, if as was untrue in the 1860s the rest of the country is willing to let them go.

Professors asked for comment in other departments at UNM were skeptical that politics alone would find a way to make his proposed new nation possible. But, they said, given 100 more years well, who can say for sure?

"How realistic is it? That's one of the key issues," Truxillo said. "It's not unfeasible as a premise and a realistic possibility when you consider global geopolitical trends. It could happen with the support of the U.S. government."

He listed a number of international developments that he said would have seemed "far-fetched in the 1950s," including the breakup of the Soviet Union, the breakup of Yugoslavia, the apparently imminent creation of an independent West Bank Palestinian state agreed to by Israel, and ballot-box separatist movements aimed at achieving a Quebec independent of Canada.

The "tide of history" is moving the U.S.-Mexico border region toward political autonomy, Truxillo said.

Why does he think there should be a new Hispanic republic?

It's an idea that has been suggested before. In the 1960s, during the height of Chicano activism, something similar a sovereign Hispanic homeland to be called Aztlan was proposed by Rudolfo Gonzales and others.

When Truxillo was 14, he first met Reies Lopez Tijerina, leader of a group of New Mexicans who seized the courthouse in Tierra Amarilla, the Rio Arriba county seat, in 1967. It was a protest against Spanish land grants being taken by the federal government and set aside for national forests.

In October, Truxillo was a speaker during a ceremony at UNM's Zimmerman Library honoring Tijerina when he contributed his personal archives to the library's Center for Southwest Research.

At the event attended by about 300 people, Truxillo said it was from Tijerina that he had learned "that I was a member of a people with a country that had been taken from them by war, a land that was our own by treaty."

"None of the rights of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo were fulfilled," he told Tijerina. "None of the obligations were upheld. You told us this was our country, our patria, and that we should fight for our rights, that all colonized and exploited peoples should rise up in struggle for independence.

"We will one day be a majority and reclaim our birthright by any means necessary and we shouldn't shy away."

Truxillo's tone was more scholarly during the coffee-shop interview. He said New Mexico is the first "minority-majority state" in which Hispanics and Indians and other minorities on a national level outnumber non-Hispanic whites.

(U.S. census estimates of New Mexico's 1998 population: 52 percent Hispanic, Indian, Black and Asian; 48 percent non-Hispanic white. The Hispanic population alone was estimated at 40.3 percent. The 2000 census is expected to provide more precise figures.)

Hispanics in the American Southwest "have been ruled by three empires, Spain, Mexico and the United States," Truxillo said. "Under all three systems, we have failed to achieve self-determination.

"Among native-born American Hispanics, there is the feeling that we are strangers in our own land," he continued. "We remain subordinated. We have a negative image of our own culture, created by the media. Self-loathing is a terrible form of oppression. The long history of oppression and subordination has to end. There has to be an alternative."

Truxillo, who describes himself as a Chicano, said he was born in Albuquerque. He attended public schools in Albuquerque and earned his undergraduate and graduate degrees from UNM, majoring in Latin American, borderlands and Asian history.

He was an assistant professor of history at New Mexico Highlands University from 1992 to 1997, but after being denied tenure there, he began teaching in the Chicano Studies Program at UNM where he is now a visiting professor on a year-to-year contract.

Truxillo said Hispanics who have achieved some positions of power or who are otherwise "enjoying the benefits of assimilation" are most likely to be in the vanguard of opposition to his concept of the Republic of the North.

"There will be the negative reaction, the tortured response of someone who thinks, 'Give me a break. I just want to go to Wal-Mart.' But the idea will seep into their consciousness, and cause an internal crisis, a pain of conscience, an internal dialogue as they ask themselves: 'Who am I in this system?'"

Along both sides of the U.S.-Mexico border "there is a growing fusion, a reviving of connections," Truxillo said. "Southwest Chicanos and Norteno Mexicanos are becoming one people again."

Other reactions

Several professors at the University of New Mexico and a prominent local Hispanic activist were contacted for comment on UNM Professor Charles Truxillo's concept for a new Hispanic nation called the Republic of the North.

The professors were asked in particular about Truxillo's contention that U.S. states retain the right to secede.

Truxillo said the states had that right under the Articles of Confederation of 1777, in which each state retained its own "sovereignty, freedom and independence."

He said the Articles of Confederation were not superseded in that regard by the U.S. Constitution of 1787 and added that, although the North's victory settled the question of secession militarily, it was never resolved by court ruling.

Daniel Feller,professor of history

"To say that language in the Articles of Confederation is not specifically negated and therefore still effective is a very implausible argument."

"The Constitution does supersede the Articles of Confederation it takes no notice of the articles and is not presented as bearing any relation to them. The Constitution does not declare, recognize or in any way acknowledge the right to secede."

Even if the articles were not superseded, Feller noted, their full title was "'Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.' To say on the one hand that each state remains sovereign, but on the other that the union shall be perpetual well, you've got to take the baby with the bath water."

Feller said he would "say nothing about the desirability of a separate Southwestern nation."

"But is it possible? Does a state have the right to leave? By its nature that's a political question. It's outside the realm of legalities."

"The bottom line: What's possible is what people want to be possible. If five states wanted to secede and the rest of the country wanted to let them go, it could happen."

Joseph Stewart, professor of political science

"You can't ever say it won't happen. The Supreme Court did in the Reconstruction Era say that the union was indestructible. That was Texas vs. White 1869. The Constitution looks to an indestructible union. But, obviously, the court can change its mind on those things."

Stewart also said he was "somewhat skeptical in the sense of minority politics" about a possible Republic of the North.

"It seems to me that what you're getting is more cultural homogenization. There's at least some some evidence that the Mexican-American population is becoming diffused much more broadly geographically in this country. At least in the United States, I don't see that Hispanic population becoming more distinct but in fact becoming less distinct."

Felipe Gonzales, professor of sociology and director of UNM's Southwest Hispanic Research Institute

"As a concept or theory, the idea that the Southwest could someday revert back to the descendants of former Mexicans who lived here before holds a little bit of theoretical water."

Gonzales said there is "a certain homeland undercurrent among many Hispanics in New Mexico, a lot of resentment on different levels. There was so much land ripped off, in their interpretation. The United States reneged on promises made in international treaty at some point an international body may recognize a violation of rights. And people who come in from other parts of the country are suddenly supervisory over locals who have been working here for years."

But for a Republic of the North to come into being, "there would have to be much more widespread support. Educated elites are going to have to pick up on this idea and run with it and use it as a point of confrontation if it is to succeed."

"The problem is that even with a situation like in New Mexico, where the economy is peripheral compared to the booming economy in other states, the commitment to dominant institutions is still more important than what would be needed to make people want to break away."

Juan Jose Pena, Hispanic activist and vice chairman of the Hispanic Roundtable

"This is not a new topic."

Pena recommended a book, "Mexicanos vs. Americans: Mexicano Resistance in the Southwest," by Robert J. Rosenbaum, that reviews previous separatist movements in the region.

And Pena, who was national president president of the Partido de la Raza Unida about 20 years ago, said he'd written his own (unpublished) study of Hispanic separatist movements.

"We discussed the issue then of whether there should be a separate Chicano nation," he said. "I knew armed rebellion would never succeed - we just didn't have the firepower."

Today, he said, "there's not enough political consciousness among Mexican-Americans" to succeed in the political task of forming a separate nation.

"Right now, there's no movement capable of undertaking it. But Charles could very well be right. It could happen. There are any number of political scenarios that could make it happen. But it would take Mexican-Americans getting organized enough to do it."

"I've studied lots of civilizations. The United States is just like any other empire. It's not going to live forever. Eventually it will break down because of stresses."

Diversity Alliance for a Sustainable America

(Excerpt) Read more at diversityalliance.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: aliens; republicadelnorte
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-96 last
To: ApplegateRanch
Squeamish, are we?

Nope, just want to exhaust all options first.

51 posted on 03/18/2004 12:25:11 PM PST by chronotrigger (good pick up line- "my, that's the whitest white part of the eye I've ever seen, do you floss?")
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To: majhenrywest
Ping
52 posted on 03/18/2004 12:26:06 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: TomServo; stainlessbanner
Quandry. Should states be allowed to leave? Yes. Without a doubt. Should states be allowed to leave when illegal invaders set up shop within a state and then focus on the political scene of the state to effect secession? Of course one could argue if the national government was doing its job in the first place the second instance wouldn't be allowed to happen....
53 posted on 03/18/2004 12:27:19 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice.)
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To: SilenceFirstPrayerSecond
Is Mexico already and independent Hispanic homeland?

Good point. So what is the difference between Mexico and Del Norte? Well, Del Norte is currently part of the US. It enjoys all the benefits, but when it becomes "independent" it will be JUST LIKE MEXICO. Then they will want Wyoming & South Dakota!

54 posted on 03/18/2004 12:27:55 PM PST by TankerKC (Clogged Arteries and Still Smilin'!)
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To: marron
Yeah, we'd have the non-idiots trying to escape to America!
You know; real worker non-socialists.
55 posted on 03/18/2004 12:29:20 PM PST by metacognative
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To: chronotrigger
A sensible border policy (military on the border) would accomplish this.

Regime change in Mexico would accomplish it, too. Throw out the greedy corrupt politicians and police, and make it possible for the ingenuity and drive that gets Mexicans here to bear fruit for their labors in their own country. We wouldn't need a border patrol if Mexicans didn't want to leave Mexico.

Sometimes containment is the answer, as in the Cold War. Other times, it requires a more robust approach, as with Iraq (and Japan, in the not too distant past). I can't really see us trying to do anything about this until after we've got the Middle East stabilized, though.

56 posted on 03/18/2004 12:29:28 PM PST by hunter112
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To: chronotrigger; Eaker; Flyer
Truxillo predicts the creation of a Republic of the North, calling its birth within the next 80 years "an inevitability." He says the country would include all of the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado.

Truxillo, 47, has said the new country should be brought into being "by any means necessary."

Bring it on.
I think la raza might be in for a history lesson.

57 posted on 03/18/2004 12:29:34 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: chronotrigger
So if the south decided to secede again, you would support it? That's nearly 1/3 of the country.

Sure, what difference does it make how many states finally realize that the federal government is extra-constitutional? Would it be OK if it was just Delaware or something?

If they did it right I'd move there. If they just replaced one tyrannical government with another, it would be all for nothing.

58 posted on 03/18/2004 12:32:35 PM PST by Protagoras (When they asked me what I thought of freedom in America,,, I said I thought it would be a good idea.)
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To: hunter112
Regime change in Mexico would accomplish it, too

Regime change...I wonder if the U.N. would approve : )

59 posted on 03/18/2004 12:35:26 PM PST by chronotrigger (good pick up line- "my, that's the whitest white part of the eye I've ever seen, do you floss?")
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To: chronotrigger
When the Federal Government withholds funding for schools, welfare, social security, defense, highways, water, power and etc, what will Norta Republic use to finance their government? This is why Puerto Rico refuses to declare independence, despite the fact its citizens felt the US annexed them after the Spanish American War and refused to leave. They do not want statehood and opt to be a US commonwealth.
60 posted on 03/18/2004 12:41:14 PM PST by Fee
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To: chronotrigger
Regime change...I wonder if the U.N. would approve : )

Hopefully, there will never be a President Kerry asking them! But I'm not holding my breath waiting for President Bush to ignore them, either. What is it about the Bushes, they're way too willing to suck up to both Mexico and China...

61 posted on 03/18/2004 12:43:42 PM PST by hunter112
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To: chronotrigger
Nope, just want to exhaust all options first.

Nice phrase. Give them an exhausting run for the border.
62 posted on 03/18/2004 12:46:08 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: chronotrigger
"I may not live to see the Hispanic homeland, but by the end of the century my students' kids will live in it, sovereign and free."


Wouldn't Mexico be the Hispanic homeland ?

Hyphenated Americans ain't nothing but trouble.

...I just wanna go to Wal-Mart !
I love it !!!
63 posted on 03/18/2004 12:48:59 PM PST by sawmill trash (Even my squirrel dogs like Pres. Bush ! (they think kerry is a fine place to raise a leg.))
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To: mallardx
You know, in 80 years it may be a blessing. California is already useless.
64 posted on 03/18/2004 12:52:09 PM PST by GigaDittos (Malaysian jew-haters for Kerry, oh what a surprise!)
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To: GigaDittos
Oh, I forgot to add that I'm extremely disappointed that Massachusetts will not be selected for inclusion.
65 posted on 03/18/2004 12:53:15 PM PST by GigaDittos (Malaysian jew-haters for Kerry, oh what a surprise!)
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To: chronotrigger
"It's a bit dates."

True. It should be obvious to everyone that since that time they have decided to just take the whole country. And we seem to be assisting them in their agenda




every way we can.


Stupid is as stupid does.
66 posted on 03/18/2004 1:01:18 PM PST by F.J. Mitchell (Only a snobbish no class bluenose puke , would refuse to apologize for being an ass..)
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To: expatpat
.....and the Mexicans living in Tx. during the early 1800's that let all those white folks in.
67 posted on 03/18/2004 1:12:08 PM PST by american spirit
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To: chronotrigger
What this idiot doesn't realize is that most Mexicans in the US don't want to go back for a reason - Mexico itself. It's far more likely that as the US Mexican population grows that Mexico itself will be assimilated into the US. The US could use a few more states for immigration and tax revenue.
68 posted on 03/18/2004 1:21:58 PM PST by mpreston
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To: chronotrigger
I think the good professor needs to get real. *If* a Republic del Norte forms it will be through a merger of the US and Mexico, *not* from part of each nation breaking away to form a new one.

Is a union between the US and Mexico possible?

I'd say so, especially in 50 years time. Why should either Mexico or the US settle for half a loaf? Such a merger would be constitutional, too. So long as the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, and the presumption of innocence were retained in a merged state, I am not sure that I would really object to it.
69 posted on 03/18/2004 1:28:06 PM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: martin_fierro
Imagine Richardson in a feather boa shouting "I am Quetzacoatl!"
70 posted on 03/18/2004 1:30:32 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Just once I'd like to get by on my looks.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Imagine Richardson in a feather boa shouting "I am Quetzacoatl!

It's been done.

71 posted on 03/18/2004 1:33:43 PM PST by martin_fierro (A v v n c v l v s M a x i m v s)
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To: chronotrigger
You forget that first-generation Hispanics become Americans in every sense of the word! No American born citizen, young or old, of Hispanic descent, would like to have his family, and himself, again subjected to the authoritarianism, injustice, corruption, and failed policies of his ancestor's home country! Authoritarianism and corruption are the common denominators that run through all Hispanic countries! I doubt that the U.S. born son of a Mexican, Ecuadorean, Panamanian, Honduran, Cuban, Venezuelan, Chilean, Uruguayan, Paraguayan, Brazilian or Argentinean would like to trade his newly acquired sense of dignity and well being, provided by a country of laws such as ours, for the gamble of a non-tested experiment in nation building with individuals that share a common heritage of the same flawed idiosyncrasies that his parents shunned when they came to this country!
72 posted on 03/18/2004 1:41:30 PM PST by Diogenes
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To: chronotrigger
You forget that first-generation Hispanics become Americans in every sense of the word! No American born citizen, young or old, of Hispanic descent, would like to have his family, and himself, again subjected to the authoritarianism, injustice, corruption, and failed policies of his ancestor's home country! Authoritarianism and corruption are the common denominators that run through all Hispanic countries! I doubt that the U.S. born son of a Mexican, Ecuadorean, Panamanian, Honduran, Cuban, Venezuelan, Chilean, Uruguayan, Paraguayan, Brazilian or Argentinean would like to trade his newly acquired sense of dignity and well being, provided by a country of laws such as ours, for the gamble of a non-tested experiment in nation building with individuals that share a common heritage of the same flawed idiosyncrasies that his parents shunned when they came to this country!
73 posted on 03/18/2004 1:51:56 PM PST by Diogenes
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To: chronotrigger
You forget that first-generation Hispanics become Americans in every sense of the word! No American born citizen, young or old, of Hispanic descent, would like to have his family, and himself, again subjected to the authoritarianism, injustice, corruption, and failed policies of his ancestor's home country! Authoritarianism and corruption are the common denominators that run through all Hispanic countries! I doubt that the U.S. born son of a Mexican, Ecuadorean, Panamanian, Honduran, Cuban, Venezuelan, Chilean, Uruguayan, Paraguayan, Brazilian or Argentinean would like to trade his newly acquired sense of dignity and well being, provided by a country of laws such as ours, for the gamble of a non-tested experiment in nation building with individuals that share a common heritage of the same flawed idiosyncrasies that his parents shunned when they came to this country!
74 posted on 03/18/2004 1:52:53 PM PST by Diogenes
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To: chronotrigger
You forget that first-generation Hispanics become Americans in every sense of the word! No American born citizen, young or old, of Hispanic descent, would like to have his family, and himself, again subjected to the authoritarianism, injustice, corruption, and failed policies of his ancestor's home country! Authoritarianism and corruption are the common denominators that run through all Hispanic countries! I doubt that the U.S. born son of a Mexican, Ecuadorean, Panamanian, Honduran, Cuban, Venezuelan, Chilean, Uruguayan, Paraguayan, Brazilian or Argentinean would like to trade his newly acquired sense of dignity and well being, provided by a country of laws such as ours, for the gamble of a non-tested experiment in nation building with individuals that share a common heritage of the same flawed idiosyncrasies that his parents shunned when they came to this country!
75 posted on 03/18/2004 2:32:39 PM PST by Diogenes
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To: chronotrigger
If this professor taught history, he might know this has been tried before. Unsuccessfully.
76 posted on 03/18/2004 2:46:06 PM PST by Spok
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To: RichInOC
If New Mexico seceded, would anybody notice?
The rest of the country would. We would hit up the U.S. for freign aid so we could be a real 3rd World Banana Republic! We already have our very own dictator!
77 posted on 03/18/2004 2:54:24 PM PST by wjcsux (3rd Party Voters; stupid is as stupid does.)
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To: SilenceFirstPrayerSecond
"Is Mexico already and independent Hispanic homeland?

Why are so many people fleeing it?"

I'll answer your questions. I suppose that you could characterize Mexico as AN independent Hispanic homeland. Sounds good to me.

As to why so many people are fleeing it? I can only assume that the Mexican economy isn't what it should be and the people who are fleeing are doing so while hoping to benefit from taxpayer largess in this country. Makes them sound like a bunch of parasites, doesn't it?

If Frank Zoretich is correct and the named states do eventually break away and become some sort of "northern territory of Mexico," they will have to devise a way to keep the largess coming. It would be interesting to witness those machinations, but I'll be, thankfully, gone by then.

If you are hoping to make the argument that these people are oppressed and that we somehow "owe" them something, SilenceFirstPrayerSecond, I wish you luck.

78 posted on 03/18/2004 3:15:38 PM PST by davisfh
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To: Lunatic Fringe
The professor needs to realize the the United States is indivisible, and that secession from the Union is not permitted.

But don't you understand that when the Mexicans overwhelm the voting system, anything can happen? They will be able to do away with the Constitution, if they so choose. This is what the elite of Mexico are waiting for, to take over our country through the votes of the illegals.

I don't see many Republicans or Democrat lawmakers who seem to care - nor do the people who vote for them. That is the sickest part about the immigration mess.

79 posted on 03/18/2004 3:33:35 PM PST by swampfox98 (Beyond 2004 - Chaos! 200 million illegals waiting in the wings)
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To: chronotrigger
Gonzales said there is "a certain homeland undercurrent among many Hispanics in New Mexico, a lot of resentment on different levels. There was so much land ripped off, in their interpretation

well, the "hispanics" ripped the land off from the Lagunas, Apaches and Navajos.

my family is "hispanic"...I've worked in New Mexico...yes there are many hispanics, but there are two groups: THe descendents of the Spanish colonials and the newer immigrants. But if you read history, the Pueblos almost threw out the Mexican/spanish a couple hundred years ago, and the Pueblos are fairly peaceable people...especially in contrast to the other "ethnic" groups like the Texans and the Apaches...the only ones meaner than the Texans are the apaches. And if I had to place a bet, I'd bet on the Apache and the Texans anyday.

80 posted on 03/18/2004 3:52:16 PM PST by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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Comment #81 Removed by Moderator

To: billbears; TomServo; archy; sheltonmac; GOPcapitalist
The only question I have for them is why - The article did not really answer the question. With the influx of illegals, why would it make sense for this contingent to seceed and create another country similar to that which they flee? Is it taxation or are these guys just thumping their chests acting the part?
82 posted on 03/18/2004 6:46:29 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: Spok
Not always unsuccessful -- read on:

Baltic States 1991
Bangladesh 1971
Finland 1917
Panama 1903
Prussia 1866-68
Confederacy 1861
Hungary 1848
Venezuela 1830
Ecuador 1830
Norway 1814
USA 1776
Sweden 1523
Denmark 1397
83 posted on 03/18/2004 7:01:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: TXBSAFH
They need to ban him from the faculty liquor cabinet. He been hittin' the good stuff to much.

Yeah, he's downed a few too many worms at the bottom of Mescal bottles.

84 posted on 03/18/2004 10:12:36 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Mr. Mojo
Colorado votes NO!.
85 posted on 03/18/2004 10:21:44 PM PST by Balata (A Vietnam vet against Kerry and Fonda.)
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To: Mr. Mojo
Thanks for the ping. ;-)

Hispanics in the American Southwest "have been ruled by three empires, Spain, Mexico and the United States," Truxillo said. "Under all three systems, we have failed to achieve self-determination.

Exactly. LOL! I imagine they'll keep right on failing to achieve so I don't think we have too much to worry about. ;-)

86 posted on 03/18/2004 10:23:39 PM PST by NRA2BFree (The Socialists are in control of our Congress. It*s time to clean house!!)
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To: Balata
All states with Spanish names are a "si" vote for these racist nutballs. ....and that includes Colorado, of course. .....and Nevada, Arizona, Nueva Mexico, Tejas, and California.

As the guy featured in the article (strangely) admitted, this is all about their self-loathing. If they were able to stand the sight of themselves in their mirrors, they wouldn't be involved with any of this Atlzan nonsense. But he incorrectly blames "the media" for that self-loathing instead of the real curprits -- the individual self-loathers themselves (himself obviously included).

87 posted on 03/18/2004 10:32:36 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: chronotrigger
Maybe now people will finally see the dangers of illegal immigration.

Not just illegal, but legal as well.

88 posted on 03/18/2004 10:38:17 PM PST by Siamese Princess
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To: Siamese Princess
Exactly correct, but a very un-pc thing to say (in both liberal and conservative circles).

I propose we place a moratorium on all immigration, both illegal and legal, for the next 20 - 30 years. That should be enough time to Americanize the current crop of recently immigrated folks, and to help protect the nation at a time when our Islamist enemies are crossing the borders in alarming numbers (according to a recent investigative report by Linda Vester). If we don't, our chance of surviving is very slim.

89 posted on 03/18/2004 10:55:29 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: chronotrigger
We need to keep aborting babies so illegal immigrants can take our place. Stupid White Men, and Women ...
90 posted on 03/18/2004 10:55:39 PM PST by John Lenin (I know I'm odd because I remember the 60's)
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To: chronotrigger
"Not within the next 20 years but within 80 years," he said. "I may not live to see the Hispanic homeland, but by the end of the century my students' kids will live in it, sovereign and free."

Ok, let's say he's right.

What will happen when all the industry and individuals of wealth flee this new Hispanic "nation"? Will the "citizens" of this new region then mount an invasion of the rest of the country as illegals?

91 posted on 03/18/2004 11:02:38 PM PST by montag813
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To: stainlessbanner
They're giving secession a bad name! :-)
92 posted on 03/19/2004 5:43:48 AM PST by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: chronotrigger
I think in 80 years these states will not secede from the Union. What WILL happen is that the United States as a whole will become a Hispanic republic and probably expand so that the USA of 2084 will stretch from the Artic to Panama. The way current pressures are moving, we are moving towards this.
93 posted on 03/19/2004 5:49:08 AM PST by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: Theodore R.
Did not the U.S. Supreme Court rule after the Civil War that secession was never constitutional?

Actually, they ruled it WAS constitutional, but it was after the fact.

94 posted on 03/19/2004 5:53:38 AM PST by Paul C. Jesup (The Motto: 'Live and let live' is a suicidal belief...)
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To: HiJinx; JackelopeBreeder; Marine Inspector; SandRat; Joe Hadenuf; wardaddy; Squantos; FITZ; ...

I just came across this oldie but goodie in my research favorites, thought the border gang might find it interesting.


95 posted on 08/08/2004 2:49:51 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks -- I was looking for this a couple of weeks back.


96 posted on 08/08/2004 3:45:23 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder (Proud to be a mean-spirited and divisive loco gringo armed vigilante terrorist cucaracha!)
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