Look at what Saddam had hidden in the sand!

Military Magazine | April 2004 | Lawrence H. Boteler

[johnmorris886]

An Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, was found in August 2003 buried in the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops. The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The MiG was reportedly one of over two dozen Iraqi jets buried in the sand, like hidden treasure, waiting to be recovered at a later date. Contrary to what some in the major media have reported, not all the jets found were from the Gulf War-era.

The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops in the photos is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticaed electronic warfare devices.

U.S. Air Force recovery teams had to use large earth-moving equipment to uncover the MiG, which is over 70 feet long and weights nearly 25 tons. The Foxbat is known to be one of Iraq's top jet fighters. The advanced electronic reconnaissance version found by the U.S. Air Force is currently in service with the Russian air force. The MiG is capable of flying at speeds of over 2,000 miles an hour, or three times the speed of sound, and at altitudes of over 75,000 feet.

The recover of the advanced MiG fighter is considered to be an intelligence coup by the U.S. Air Force. The Foxbat may also be equipped with advanced Russian and French-made electronics that were sold to Iraq during the 1990s in violation of a UN ban on arms sales to Badhdad.

The buried aircraft at Al Taqqadum were covered in camouflage netting, sealed and, in many cases, had their wings removed before being buried more than 10 feet beneath the Iraqi desert. The discovery of the buried Iraqi jet fighters illustrates the problem faced by U.S. inspection teams searching Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is larger in size than California, and the massive deserts south and west of Baghdad were used by Saddam Hussein to hide weapons during the first Gulf War.

U.S. Intelligence sources have already uncovered several mass grave burial sites in the open deserts with an estimated 10,000 dead hidden there. In addition Iraq previously hid SCUD missles, chemical weapons and biological warheads by buring them under the desert sand.

UN inspection teams found those weapons in the early 1990s after detailed information of the exact locations was obtained. Former top U.S. weapons inspector Dr. David Kay is known to favor human intelligence as the primary means to finding Iraq's hidden treasure trove of weapons and secrets. While there are rumors of Iraqi chemical and biological weapons being shipped to nearby Syria, the weapons may very well still remain inside Iraq buried under the vast desert wastelands.

Some critics of the Bush Administration have claimed that the inability of U.S. Forces to uncover weapons of mass destruction is proof that the President mislead the nation into the war with Iraq. However in recent days the critics have fallen silent as word quietly leaked from Iraq that major discoveries have already been made and are now being documented completley. Bush Administration officials are keeping any such discoveries secret for the moment.

[Riley]

That seems a sensible enough course of action.

[Outlaw76]

"Even if it was sexed up with more modern electronics, I doubt the MIG-25 would stand a chance, even against 1980-vintage fighters."

I have to disagree with you there. A P51 Mustang equiped with the latest air to air missiles and electronics to use them would be extremely deadly, it's biggest problem would be a lack of defensive capabilities, small payload, and not being able to get in-theater quickly.

[piasa]

I haven't been following Russian aerospace work in a long while- wonder what they have been up to lately in R&D? I'm sure they've been busy and I have to wonder if they and the French have been cooperating, seeing as how the French seem to think we're the biggest threat to their culture since corn on the cob.

[Broadside Joe]

"What I would like to know is if the Iraqi MIG-25s, initially interceptor aircraft, had been turned into something else."

Yes there is a variant that was made for ground attack but with a different number designation ie: not a MIG 25 but a MIGxx. I think it may have been a 2 seater like an F-15 Strike Eagle.

[Broadside Joe]

"Yes there is a variant that was made for ground attack but with a different number designation ie: not a MIG 25 but a MIGxx. I think it may have been a 2 seater like an F-15 Strike Eagle."

Ooooops scratch that I was thinking of the MIG 23 with it's ground attack version the MIG 27.

[Atlantic Friend]

As I see it the French aircraft builders (and aerospace firms in general) have important partnerships with both Russian and US counterparts. A friend of mine has recently enjoyed a trip to Norfolk to make a lecture to your Navy about French results in "pulse reactors" (I'm not sure it translates exactly that way, though).

[Atlantic Friend]

Would a Sidewinder-equipped P-51 stand a chance if confronting similarly-equipped F-16s ?

[bmwcyle]

Russian and French-made electronics

We must get the support of the world

Let's put cowards in the White House.

[Outlaw76]

Depends on the situation and literally who can see and shoot first. I think the P-51 would stand an excellent chance against a similarly equipped F-16.

Neither machine can outrun the missile.
Neither machine can effectively 'hide' from detection.

If both could somehow have the same avionics packages and countermeasures:
The F-16 has speed and acceleration as it's two main benefits.
The P-51 has maneuverability and the ability fly extremely low and slow.

I think it would make for an interesting encounter.

[Makedonski]

The Tornado FR.1 has MIL-STD-1553 standard??

I am by profession Electrical Engineer and although I haven't had defense industry experience I know what system integration is and one has interface standards to which manufacturers comply. A western aircraft is made with same interface standard for different manfacturers to bid for equipment like radar and fire control. Ok so that is exactly what I am saying. French manufactured radar interfaced to a russian fire control system in a russian airframe is not worth while doing. Either have the whole thing french made (electronics) or not. There is a chance of having external pods that might carry IR imaging or external pod that even is fire control but it is not that easy. All I am saing is just someone to say a Mig-25 is thought to have a french technology is either YES or NO.

[Wombat101]

The Tornado will have whatever standard the designers decided was the most efficient, regardless of what designation you give it. After the decision is made on a standard, and as an engineer you should know this, it is not often difficult to adopt (existing) technology to conform to that standard.

French technology (for example) interfacing with a MIG (for example) is certainly worth doing if:

a) The French technology is superior to anything in the Russian inventory.
b) The French technology can be adapted with little or no loss of functionality or capability due to different voltages, space requirements, electrical bus, etc (Intel does this, BTW, with Pentium and Celeron processors, for example).
c)The modifications required to mix and match airframe to technology would not require unreasonable changes to be made to one or the other or both.
d) You believe that French Engineers and systems techs are capable of adapting their technology to Russian standards and vice-versa. I believe they are. The principles of engineering, electronics and computers do not miraculously change due to geography.
e) It makes economic sense to buy someone else's technology rather than devote the resources to developing your own.

Taking all of those factors into account, not only is it possible to adapt French aviation technology to a Russian airframe, it's probable that this is the case when we're talking about Iraq, which has no indigenous aircraft industry of it's own, but which had enough oil money to make it worth someone's time to figure these issues out.

This aircraft, and many more like them, were buried for a reason:

a) To hide a valuable asset that otherwise might be destroyed for future use.
b) To hide evidence of violations of UN sanctions.
c) To cover (possible) French government involvement in circumventing sanctions and supplying an American enemy with weapons and technology that could kill Americans in the field, or innocents in an act of terrorism.
d) The supply of parts had dried up and rather than lose a capital investment in such an aircraft, it was buried to prevent it's destruction in an American attack, just waiting for the day when the flow of parts, engineers, etc would resume.
e) Saddam Hussein is an idiot and the people in charge of his armed forces were even more so.

[Makedonski]

First of all it is the last e).

Saddam and his people were idiots. Full stop.

There is more Yugoslav/Serbian equipment in Iraq than French. The Yugos were there big time.

A standard is not introduced per aircraft a standard last for a long time and it is implemented on all aircraft to reduce cost and maintainance time. Also to allow for future upgrade.

The MIL-STD-1553 was introduced in 1978 and it is standard in all US military aircraft (fighting aircraft not transports). Also the VME bus standard is very common.

Do you know what a bullshit story is because that is what the French Iraqi military help accusation is. Nothing more nothing less.

In 2002 the Ukrainian government was accused of selling Kolchuga Air Defence system that was able to detect Stealth planes.

The US even went to Ukraine for inspection and now were in Iraq and have you heard anything about it?? NOOO. Because it was bullshit. The Ukrainian president was pressured for some short term political goal.

Then the story about Chinese experts installing fibre-optic equipment for air defence in Iraq. Well the US in Iraq. Where are the fibre-optics??

Don't argue over a B.S. Story.

Oh buy the way the later model Russian planes use 486 processors :)). Go figure!!

[FreedomCalls]

It's at least a 6 month old story.

It was on NewsMax last August!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/8/6/105528.shtml

[Petronski]

There are some pretty sophisticated 1955-era B-52s flying around.

[Blzbba]

One shudders to think what the Chinese are doing with our statellite technology, courtesy of Clintax...

[Mo1]

.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Or is this a new jet?

No, it's a pile of junk.

[eastforker]

This was posted shortly after it was found last year. If not mistaken Diogenisis posted it from one of the wire sevices but it never made the news.

[Freedom4US]

Once France and Russia provided arms and technology to Iraq in violation of any number of UN resolutions Saddam had their ass, so to speak. A form of blackmail or extortion, sorta kinda. No wonder nobody wanted to topple Saddam, they were all in up to their necks dealing with this guy..

Pretty sad. Meanwhile, everyone screams "Bush Lied" (TM); ya just gotta love that guy. The harder right, versus the easier wrong.

[bitt]

However, in recent days the critics have fallen silent as word quietly leaked from Iraq that major discoveries have already been made and are now being documented completely. Bush administration officials are keeping any such discoveries secret for the moment

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well, if this story was posted last August, I am sorry there wasn't more of an outcry about found WMDs, as I first hoped was true and within the last week, as the story reads .

But I STILL believe the WMD is hidden in the sand or is stored in Syria, or has already found it's way into AQ hands (shudder0.