[mojomoto]

i dont think destroying whatever water facilities they have and leveling the whole town would be the best response since we are there to help them. the perps of this should be brought to justice, but we shouldnt punish the whole town. that just doesnt work. any military person knows that. not to mention it is inhumane, childish and unamerican to destroy something cause your mad at someone, then build it again trying to show them how nice you are, and then destroy it again when something goes wrong. that is counterproductive and wont work. this is a horrible example of how war can go wrong, but those men knew what they were doing and they knew the people they were facing, and i like to think they faced the horrible atrocity that awaited them in fallujah with honor and bravery - after all it isnt going to be an easy slog in iraq, and we are there to help them, not destroy them. right?

[hershey]

You're right. We're in Iraq to help them, but this isn't an exercise in turning the other cheek, etc.. If we simply let it go and repair the electricity, water, etc., despite continued attacks...and there will be more bombings and atrocities because they know this gets America's attention...and that it might bring down Bush, or drive us from Iraq(as in Somalia), then we merely invite more horror.

The town's population isn't Christian, nor do they read the Bible. They won't take forebearance on our part as anything but weakness. The one thing they understand is force, unfortunately. So we have to take a practical view of the situation and decide what outcome we desire, which is of course, pacification. It isn't childish or unAmerican or inhumane to take practical measures to bring about peace. Presumably the marines are saying to those sheiks in Fallujah, "Look, we can be your best friend, or we can be your worst enemy. You choose. This is your last chance." Then give them 48 hours to hand over those who committed these atrocities. If they don't cooperate, then we cut off the electricity and water for a few hours every night,(it gets hot and uncomfortable), put a cordon around the town and don't let anyone in or out.

We don't kill innocent women or children, but if you've seen those pictures, it was teenagers who burned, mutilated those corpses, dragged them through town and hung them from that bridge. Their pictures will be at every military checkpoint, and they should be caught and dealt with in a public way...to deter copycat behavior. I don't think we should kill these kids, but we should deal with them in a way that makes such behavior unimaginable. Putting them in an Iraqi jail is problematical, however. Once June arrives and we hand over power to the Iraqis, their govt. could set them free and hold a big parade just to rub our noses in it.

Iraq's problem is tribal govt. (Forget the fact that some are crazed, medieval minded religious fascists). They don't think of themselves primarily as Iraqis. They think of themselves as Shiites or Sunnis or Bathists, and emotions rule, not logic. Democracy is a very sophisticated concept. You have to agree to yield power, albeit temporarily, to whomever wins elections. Sometimes this is messy. Bad guys can steal votes, win elections, and take power. You can either go with the flow until the next election, or hold a revolution and seize power.(The way South America and Mexico conducted democracy for most of the last 100 years.)

We're transplanting democracy to a part of the world that needs it desperately. It's the only way to bring these people into the modern era, where they can enjoy viable economies, get a decent job, live meaningful lives, feel good about themselves, and not focus on hating all of western civilization and esp. America because you don't have any other reason to get up in the morning. (Europe has a big problem since they're being outbred by their Muslim population. You can fill in the blanks...obviously, their native, Christian-even-if-in-name-only-population will be outvoted someday.) We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Okay, so that's our game plan: Bringing Iraq into the 21st century. Some have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, i.e., Fallujah. We give them a chance to cooperate, then we make life unpleasant until they do, and we don't allow cameras and the press in when we clamp down. If our foreign policy is driven by hysteria, by hand-wringing, liberal columnists who hate us and want Bush to fail and be driven from office, then we've already lost. We might as well hand over the keys to America to the UN.

This is a war against terror. It'll take a long time, and we will win in the end. What happened in Fallujah isn't a horrible example of how war can go wrong. If we simply waged war, we'd have wiped out Fallujah's malcontents months ago. But we've complicated things by deciding to do a bit of nation-building in the middle of waging war, and it's not easy. We won't be driven from Iraq by a bunch of homicidal maniacs, but we must make sure this doesn't happen again. (Because the rest of the Arab world is watching and taking notes.) We have to crack down hard. The solution is somewhere between 'Carthage delenda est', leveling the town, killing everyone, and sowing the ground with salt...and simply arresting whomever we can catch and putting them in an Iraqi jail. It has to be harsh enough to get their attention and make them decide not to fool around with Americans ever again. And we should take measures against those weasly stringer photographers in bed with the terrorists and show up with cameras at the ready before bombs explode. Presumably, the marines know what to do and are already doing it.