Gun-ban bill dies in Senate committee (Maryland)

The Washington Times | April 3, 2004 | Robert Redding Jr.

[neverdem]

The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com

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Gun-ban bill dies in Senate committee

By Robert Redding Jr.
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published April 3, 2004

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ANNAPOLIS -- A Senate committee narrowly defeated a bill yesterday that would have banned the sale of 19 semiautomatic gun types in Maryland.

    The bill was defeated 6-5 in the Judicial Proceedings Committee, with the deciding vote cast by Sen. John A. Giannetti Jr., Anne Arundel and Prince George's Democrat.

    "I think the gun debate died when [Mr. Giannetti] decided he wasn't going to support any kind of ban," said House Speaker Michael E. Busch, Anne Arundel Democrat.

    The bill was intended to replace a federal ban on military-style weapons that is set to expire in September and is not expected to be renewed by Congress.

    Gun-control advocates saw the bill as the last opportunity this year to strengthen Maryland's gun laws. Thirty other gun-related bills remain, but lawmakers are not expected to vote on them with less than two weeks left in the 2004 General Assembly session.

    Sen. Robert J. Garagiola, Montgomery Democrat and the bill's sponsor, acknowledged that he tried to amend the legislation to get Mr. Giannetti to change his mind.

    The [National Rifle Association] won, and the citizens of Maryland lost," Mr. Garagiola said. "Hopefully, Congress will do the right thing at this point and reauthorize it."

    Maryland banned a number of military-style assault pistols about 10 years ago but allows the sale of 45 models of semiautomatic assault weapons if a buyer passes a criminal background check and agrees to a seven-day waiting period.

    The federal law prohibits the sale of guns that have two or more characteristics of an assault weapon, such as a grenade launcher. There are 19 weapons banned under the law.

    The proposal in the General Assembly would have banned sales of the 45 models that are now legal but would not affect guns already sold.

    Mr. Giannetti has said that Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., a Republican, would veto the bill.

    The 30 remaining gun-related bills -- not expected to make it to the floor -- include efforts to lift a ban on selling some guns without safety devices; allow more residents to carry a concealed weapon, and make it a crime to use a toy gun to commit a crime.

    Delegate Neil F. Quinter, Howard County Democrat, sponsored companion legislation to Mr. Garagiola's bill, which also is not expected to make it to out of the House Judiciary Committee.

    This is the second straight year Mr. Garagiola and Mr. Quinter have tried to pass a more stringent assault weapons ban in the state. They had the support of Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley and Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan, both Democrats and Mr. Ehrlich's chief rivals in state politics. Five other states have imposed similar firearm restrictions. Connecticut and Kentucky are considering similar bans.

    The U.S. Senate has voted in favor of a bill to extend the federal ban on weapons and to require background checks for buyers at private gun shows.

    However, President Bush and gun manufacturers oppose the bill, which includes provisions to force the Republican-controlled House to accept lawsuits against gun dealers.

    The assembly is scheduled to adjourn April 12.

    



Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.

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[neverdem]

The federal law prohibits the sale of guns that have two or more characteristics of an assault weapon, such as a grenade launcher.

Those grenade launchers were really causing a lot of trouble. They were being fired so close that the warhead couldn't activate. So the bangers had to use the simple rounds with just shot in them. It was easier to get the HE rounds. /sarcasm

Where did this author come from, WaPo?

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[neverdem]

BANG

Seems like more confirmation about MD's AWB. I can just imagine the nonsense the other 30 bills addressed.

[SkyPilot]

When this nonsense was passed 10 years ago, the media was in orgasmic fits and the Democrats were breaking their arms patting themselves on the back.

After the Democrats lost the Senate, House, and numerous Governships, the light finally went on. Reasoned minds at the DNC (there are not that many of them) concluded they had slit their own wrists. The riff raff rabble in the party would hear non of it, but the reality could not be ignored.

Good riddence to this garbage.

[Ophiucus]

Amazing how simple phrases like "shall make no law" and "shall not be infringed" cause so much trouble and consternation.

[mrs. a]

A gun control measure was defeated? Here in Maryland???? Hang on, folks, Armageddon approaches...

[sgtbono2002]

Mds. gun laws dont need strengthening , they need upgrading. We need a concealed Carry Law like most forward thinking states.

[supercat]

Those grenade launchers were really causing a lot of trouble.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the so-called grenade launcher basically just a hook? Most people hearing the term probably think of RPG's, but I believe the "grenade launchers" are really just grenade tossers--basically designed to allow the rifle to be used as a tossing weapon.

Actually, it is reather amusing that two of the banned items are designed to allow a rifle to be used for decidedly lo-tech non-firearm purposes (as a stabbing implement, or as a tossing implement). Since these functions could be performed just as well without the firearm attached, one could take a stick and attach a knife and a hook and have something that would perform the "grenade launcher" and bayonet functions just as well as a mounted bayonet or "grenade launcher". So would having two out of the five deadly features mean the stick was an "assault weapon"?

[neverdem]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the so-called grenade launcher basically just a hook? Most people hearing the term probably think of RPG's, but I believe the "grenade launchers" are really just grenade tossers--basically designed to allow the rifle to be used as a tossing weapon.

I'm not sure what your referring to. The Army had a single shot 40mm M79 grenade launcher that broke open to load like double barrel shotguns.

During the latter part of the Vietnam War they developed the M203 which was a combination of the M16 and a 40mm grenade launcher parallel to the rifle barrel that slid forward to load and extract and backward to put the loaded launcher's barrel in battery. I had one.

Prior to the AWB someone modified a AR 15, or other civilian versions of the M16, and added a 37mm barrel to fire standard maritime signal flares, IIRC.

Here's the M203

[neverdem]

I made my first neat link in comment# 9. Thank you.

[farmfriend]

Way to go. Glad I could help.

[On the Road to Serfdom]

The U.S. Senate has voted in favor of a bill to extend the federal ban on weapons and to require background checks for buyers at private gun shows.

However, President Bush and gun manufacturers oppose the bill, which includes provisions to force the Republican-controlled House to accept lawsuits against gun dealers.

First, the US Senate voted it down. Second, the last paragraph is misleading.

[neverdem]

The author poorly described what happened in Congress. I posted the story mainly for confirming what happened in Maryland.

[supercat]

My recollection was that the "grenade launcher" on some rifles was a hook which was designed so that one could hook a grenade to the rifle in such a way that one could swing the barrel and use it to throw the grenade. Any device that could use propellant to launch grenades as from a cannon would be considered a "destructive device" by the BATF and thus irrelevant to the AWB. And of course the grenades themselves are "destructive devices" and heavily restricted as such.

My impression, though, is that the "grenade launchers" targetted by the BATF were simply hooks designed to allow a rifle to be used as a manual thrower. Can anyone confirm? If so, explaining to people what the "grenade launcher" is might contribute toward exposing the absurdity of the AWB.

[neverdem]

Are you talking about devices like these? I'm pretty sure they required some kind of modified cartridge to launch the grenade. Pics courtesy of archy. M7-M7A3 series for the M1 Garand rifle

[neverdem]

I'm pretty sure they required some kind of modified cartridge to launch the grenade.

Sorry about that.

[archy]

There are two types of grenade and launcher cartridge, actually. One uses a special, high pressure blank to launch heavier and longer-ranged grenades from a rifle so equipped. The M-31 Antitank rifle grenade was one such, which became so heavy in order to have a warhead capable of penetrating the armour of increasingly better-protected Soviet tanks that a seperate throway launcher tube and improved rocket-assisted projectile was developed as the M72 Light Antitank Weapon, the LAW.

But there've also been lighter rifle grenades developed that have a steel insert in the grenade's tail boom with a hole drilled in it just a bit smaller than the diameter of a bullet from the rifle. These are fired with a live round, and the bullet penetrates the steel *bullet trap* but is caught in it and doesn't penetrate the grenade, imparting all its momentum to the heavier grenade. These have less range/power than the units launched with a blank/balistite launcher cartridge- which can also be used with some bullet-trap type grenades- but are sufficient for house-to-house and room-to-room work in cities, and for use against vehicles or troops in the open at night.

Riot control agents launched from rifles and police shotguns also exist, as do smoke and flare pyrotechnic launchers. There are a wide variety of designs, and the study and collection of such units is a fascinating subject in itself.

[archy]

[neverdem]

Thanks for the additional pics and info. Was the text from a Jane's Small Arms or Infantry Weapons? In the pic with the guy, who looks like a re-enactor from about 50 years ago, is that a Springfield or Enfield bolt action in the stacked arms?

[neverdem]

Archy had or he's found a bunch of cool pics about rifle grenade launchers for the M1 Garand and M14 rifles and other stuff in comments# 16 - 18, IIRC. The thread is on the *bang_list for April 2nd, IIRC.