Orson Scott Card: On Fairness and Families [Gay Marriage]

The Ornery American ^ | March 28, 2004 | Orson Scott Card

[Tolik]

I don't agree with everything he says (especially affirmative action) but he provides some very sensible and rational reasons why "gay" marriage is NOT good for this country.

But the way he discusses it is logical, calm and reasoned. People talk alot about how there is no debate today, merely shrill extremes with no listening. Card's article and some of the more "liberal" causes he endorses are done in such a way that at least there is apparently room for discussion.

I don't agree with all he says either, but I get the feeling I could have a healthy open-minded debate with him and even if I didn't convince him I would come away with respect for his thinking.

Very well said! Thank you. Our political system benefits from positive and negative feedback. "Shrill extremes" are not a feedback, but noise, sometimes very loud noise that drowns some bits of thoughtful criticism. It is bad for our political health.

I don't agree with everything he says (especially affirmative action) but he provides some very sensible and rational reasons why "gay" marriage is NOT good for this country.

But the way he discusses it is logical, calm and reasoned. People talk alot about how there is no debate today, merely shrill extremes with no listening. Card's article and some of the more "liberal" causes he endorses are done in such a way that at least there is apparently room for discussion.

I don't agree with all he says either, but I get the feeling I could have a healthy open-minded debate with him and even if I didn't convince him I would come away with respect for his thinking.

[theFIRMbss]

>"Purpose" in biological terms means FUNCTION. The function of sexual intercourse is to pair up zygotes ...

The only way we
can determine function is
by observation.

Yes, intercourse does
function to pair up zygotes.
But observation

also shows many
additional functions of
intercourse. Hormones

are regulated
by it. (Through them, our thinking.)
Social bonds get formed

(and broken) by it.
And, in fact, only some times
do zygotes pair up.

But all times we see
these other things occurring.
We cannot dismiss

these other functions
and say just reproduction
is the "purpose" here.

(Complicated things
often play multiple roles --
Language is a tool

for thinking, AND it
works for communication.
Sex is not simple.)

[Jonx6]

Great book, I hope they do a good job.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

I hope they do a good job.

It should be good. Card wrote the first draft of the screenplay. They're writing the second draft now. Hopefully too much won't get changed.

[King Prout]

BIOLOGICAL FUNCTION limits the discussion.

mixing apples and oranges only leads to confusion over bullpuckey. please do not do it.

[theFIRMbss]

>mixing apples and oranges only leads to confusion over bullpuckey. please do not do it

Function is function.
The rest is ass-umption. Life
won't be simple just

because people wish
it were, or are willing to
pretend that it is.

Talk to someone else
if you're just looking to stroke
your preconceptions.

[theFIRMbss]

> Yes, intercourse does/function to pair up zygotes./But observation/also shows many/additional functions of/intercourse. Hormones/are regulated/by it.

>>BIOLOGICAL FUNCTION limits the discussion. ...

Hormonal cascades
from sex and orgasm are
pure biology.

They affect all cells,
every time someone's aroused.
Fertilization

just happens some times.
If we're gonna assume things,
we should assume that

ancient proto-cells
evolved proto-intercourse
as a method to

regulate hormones.
And when this biology
became commonplace --

proto-intercourse
as a hormonal control --
cell matter exchange

piggy-backed onto
intercourse. And that linked sex
with reproduction.

[Galactic Overlord-In-Chief]

It would be easier to imagine an animation movie. OSC of course admits the challenge of finding the actors, as small and as bright as the heroes of the book.

After reading Ender's Game, I can see why. The protagonists are pretty young. Card said he'd probably have to bump the characters' ages up a bit from the book. Myself, I'm working on a story where 17 of the characters are between the ages of 10-13. I could give a casting director a real headache....heh heh.

[King Prout]

those are derivative, supplemental, supportive EFFECTS of sex, not the FUNCTION of sex.

let's apply your "logic" to something else as equally obvious: you would say that because an eye which has a shard of glass driven into the cornea (ie: abuse or misuse) reports agony to the brain, sets off a cascade of hormones and neurotransmitters, affects demeanor and personality, and so forth and so on... that the biological function of an eye is not to focus light onto the retina, translate photon reception into chemical signals, and report this data to the occipital lobes.

*twirling finger at right temple at such "reasoning"*

[theFIRMbss]

>let's apply your "logic" to ... an eye which has a shard of glass driven into the cornea ... *twirling finger at right temple at such "reasoning"*

So, you're comparing the normal effects of sex to random trauma . . . Let's deal: I'll admit I'm wacky, if you admit that you're Forest Gump . . .