US Military: Tillman Exemplified Patrotism (Details on Firefight)

AP Breaking News ^ | Saturday April 24, 2004- One hour ago | Paul Haven in Afghanistan

[LoudRepublicangirl]

I feel so unworthy. This man represented all that is great about this country. How many of us could say we would have done the same thing if in his position? I can think of atleast one athlete who wanted the benefits of living and making millions in this country but didn't think it was worthy of fighting for-Muhummad Ali.

[archy]

(unofficially) I heard that he was hit by mortar fire..looks like Ranger Tillman went out in a blaze of glory

It would not be the first time. How fitting that Ranger Tillman would be following the example set by another NFL player with guts.

Tillman did not have to join the Army and no one would have criticized him if he did not. Indeed, no one would ever even have mentioned it if he didn't. He joined because he thought it was right, and to do what you think is right even if it means placing yourself in danger is the essence of the true hero.

Tillman's decision brings to mind the same choice made by James Robert Kalsu, one of only two NFL players to die in the Vietnam War. In 1968, Kalsu played his rookie season for the Buffalo Bills and was a budding star. He belonged to the Reserve Officers Training Corps (ROTC) and was told his duty status could be indefinitely postponed while he was in the NFL. Since the war was then expected to wind down, Kalsu knew that postponing his service would mean avoiding exposing himself to combat. Instead he asked to serve, was sent to Vietnam in 1969 and died there in a mortar attack in 1970 at the age of 25. No one would have criticized Kalsu if he had not gone to Vietnam. He went because he thought it was right.

I looked up some newspaper accounts of the Khowst area where Tillman died. One dispatch called it "a dusty town set on a rocky plain ringed by baked and blasted mountains." The mountain border area of Afghanistan and Pakistan does seem "baked and blasted" -- I've been there -- but the magnificence of creation is also palpable in that part of the world where impressive mountains stretch as far as the eye can see, and the night skies, clear and unspoiled by city lights, seems to reveal the entire universe. Pat Tillman sacrificed a glamorous, highly paid lifestyle to journey to a remote place and fight for the ideal of freedom. The sky of Afghanistan may have been the last thing he ever saw, and it is a glorious sight, fit for a hero.

-more-

First Lieutenant James Robert Kalsu
C BTY, 2ND BN, 11TH ARTY RGT 101 ABN DIV
Army Of The United States
13 April 1945 - 21 July 1970
Oklahoma City, OK
Panel 08W Line 038

Kalsu's story touching and tragic.

Buddy Thomas
Senior sports editor/columnist
The Standard Times, New Bedford, Massachusetts

Bob Kalsu never reached All-Pro status in the National Football League.

Probably because he didn't play long enough.

But the big lineman from the University of Oklahoma was voted the team's top rookie in his first and only season with the Buffalo Bills.

That was back in 1968 when the American Football League was on the threshold of a merger with the rival NFL, and the 1-12-1 Bills were hoping to re-discover the glory days of mid-decade.

I was two years removed from Vietnam at the time and still trying to re-adjust to civilian life. Part of that re-adjustment centered around watching professional football, trying to convince myself that the AFL was not just a cheap imitation of the real thing (NFL).

A year later I finally became convinced when the Jets beat my beloved Colts in Super Bowl III.

But I had never even heard of Bob Kalsu until sometime last week, when I saw his story on television.

I can't remember the exact night it was shown. It was mid- to late-week, I think. But I do know it was on the early version of ESPN's Sportscenter.

It probably was meant to be a filler piece. You know, one of those five-minute mini-features that help fill the hour-long time slot when off-nights, Mother Nature or a combination of both leave the scoreboard virtually empty.

What it became was, quite simply, the most heart-rendering piece I've ever seen.

It was a story of life, love and devotion interrupted by an untimely death.

Bob Kalsu played the lead role.

On July 21, 1970, the Bills' lineman became the only professional football player to be killed in Vietnam. Details of his death came from the lips of a teary-eyed former soldier who saw Lieutenant Kalsu fall while helping defend something called Ripcord Base on an isolated jungle mountaintop near the Ashau Valley.

All through his high school and college days, football was a big part of Kalsu's life. So was the ROTC -- Reserve Officers Training Corps. But the biggest part of Kalsu's life was his sweetheart, Jan, who he married the day after his final college game in the Orange Bowl.

The Bills selected him in the eighth round of the '68 college draft -- after such not-so-notables as Pete Richardson, a defensive back from Dayton, running back Max Anderson of Arizona State and Mike McBath, a defensive end from Penn State. With the exception of first-round selection Haven Moses of San Diego State, the Buffalo draft list read like a roll call from the Society of Unknown Nobodies.

But Kalsu quickly became somebody in his first AFL season by earning the team's Rookie of the Year award with his stellar play at guard.

Sadly it would be his final season of football.

His wife had recently given birth to a daughter, Jill, and the future appeared bright. But following the '68 season, Kalsu began fulfilling his ROTC obligation with the United States Army and in November 1969, he received his orders to go to Vietnam.

He probably could have used politics to remain at home, but Kalsu said no.

After six months in Vietnam, 1st Lieutenant Bob Kalsu left his 11th Artillery unit of the 101st Airborne Division for a week of R&R in Hawaii.

There he was reunited with Jan, who was now pregnant with their second child.

Most of this information was recorded in newspaper articles -- articles I never knew existed before watching last week's riveting television piece.

But while the written words put a lump in my throat, the spoken words induced tears that flowed freely from my eyes.

I sobbed when Jan told of the day she received word of her husband's death as she lay in her hospital bed after giving birth to her son, Bob Jr.

I sniffled when the young Bob revealed he had heard his father's voice asking him to have the first dance with his sister on her wedding day.

And I cried when Bob Jr. relayed how he saw his father sitting and smiling as he and Jill moved gracefully about the dance floor.

But when all was said and done, I probably felt worse about myself for never having known Bob Kalsu had even existed.

Buddy Thomas' column appears on Thursday in The Standard-Times.

[swarthyguy]

http://orbat.com/

US media reports the death of a well-known football star in action in Afghanistan. This gentleman walked away from a $3.6 million for three years contract offer after 9/11; along with his brother, also a well-known athlete, he joined the Army instead.

But then, this man already marched to his own drummer: he had earlier refused a $9 million offer from another teams, preferring to stay loyal to his own despite much more money.

In a country where a person's worth is judged solely by her/his bank balance, and where the elite is unprepared to make any sacrifice for the country, it is refreshing that a young man was not ashamed to be patriotic.

He served with the 75th Infantry Regiment, the US Rangers.

[Alamo-Girl]

We shall never forget.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Most of this information was recorded in newspaper articles -- articles I never knew existed before watching last week's riveting television piece...

But when all was said and done, I probably felt worse about myself for never having known Bob Kalsu had even existed.

First Lieutenant James Robert Kalsu
C BTY, 2ND BN, 11TH ARTY RGT 101 ABN DIV
Army Of The United States
13 April 1945 - 21 July 1970
Oklahoma City, OK 

Thank you for your service.
                    ~  ~

It is never too late to learn, and to honor them - as long as someone cared enough to keep a record,
and someone cares enough to pass it on. Thanks.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

After coming under fire, Tillman's patrol got out of their vehicles, persued their attackers, then were ambushed...fighting was 'sustained' and lasted 15-20 minutes.

....two other U.S. soldiers wounded in the fighting were listed in stable condition at a military hospital at Bagram Air Base, the main coalition headquarters north of the capital, Kabul. Tillman's body was also being kept at Bagram.

Beevers would not say what Tillman's unit - the Army's 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment - was doing when it was attacked, citing security reasons. But he described service with the Rangers as "one of the most demanding assignments anywhere in the military."

   http://www.ranger.org

U.S. Army Ranger Association   Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"   And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"                        Isaiah 6:8

Pat Tillman, Former NFL Player and Army Ranger, Dies in Afghanistan

 

"Pat Tillman left a career with the NFL - turning down a $3.6 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals in 2001 - to become an Army Ranger and serve his country. He was killed on Thursday, April 22, in Afghanistan....

 

There are those who think that this will affect our morale. To hell with them. We know better. We know that it is because we have guys like Tillman on our team - dedicated, smart fighting men and women who are willing to give everything for their country - that we will persevere through until the end.

God speed, Pat. We will miss you, and all of the Rangers, Marines, and others who have died fighting the good fight overseas. We cannot thank all of you or your families enough."

~ * ~

[Boot Hill]

(Be sure to check out the special link in the last paragraph of this reply!)

MSNBC reports:   "He said it occurred at 7:30PM Thursday on a road near a village of Sperah, about 25 miles southwest of a US base at Khost."

Sperah (native spelling: Speyrah) is located (according to information from the GEONames database) 40.3 km (25.0 mi) WSW 248º from Khost (native spelling: Khowst). Distances denoted are direct mileage, and not road mileage.

On Map #1, below, Khowst is located in the center, Peshawar, Pakistan is in the upper right corner (barely), and Wana, the center of the recent Wana campaign, is on the center/south edge of the map. Speyrah is located (but not shown) along the red road WSW of Khowst on this map.

On Map #2, Speyrah is shown along that same road, WSW of Khowst (look for a very small town spelled "Spera"). Note distance scale at the bottom of the maps.

Map #1...

&nbps;

Map #1...

These and other maps can be found at...

Further maps and information regarding the land, the people and the fighting in the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan have been archived at "The Wana Campaign -- Maps, Place Names and Participants An FReference Thread".

Check out the following link...

There was an excellent thread, posted by FReeper "neverdem" back in March, with both article and replies describing the exploits of the units and soldiers assigned to this exact area where Pat Tillman was killed, complete with photos and maps. You might want to check it out, as it may even contain a photo of Pat Tillman in the field. Here is the link to that thread... "G.I.'s in Afghanistan on Hunt, but Now for Hearts and Minds".

--Boot Hill

[John Lenin]

God bless ALL the troops wifes/husbands and children, Tillman is getting way too much publicity, it's sad because it makes the other deaths look insignificant.

[dalebert]

Tillmans death does draw attention to the fact that our very best, bravest and brightest are putting all they have on the line to win this war against terror and protect us. We owe them a debt that we can never do enough to repay.

[freedumb2003]

Here is wat they are saying over at DU:

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treepig (1000+ posts) Fri Apr-23-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message

33. gotta give this guy credit


for jumping at the chance to find a way to engage in some legal murder and mayhem, rather than taking the route of a good proportion of his peers in the nfl - who also have a propensity for violence but are also at risk for criminal prosecution if they remain in the usa:

A new book claims that 21 percent of NFL players have committed serious crimes and that the league takes little note of the questionable backgrounds of its players.

In "Pros and Cons; The criminals who play in the NFL," Jeff Benedict and Don Yaeger used public access records to examine the nearly 1,600 players on NFL rosters in 1996-97 and did extensive research on a sample of 509 players whose backgrounds they were able to check. Of that group, 109, or 21 percent, had criminal histories with 264 arrests for everything from homicide (2) to domestic violence (45).

Asked if it was fair to expand the statistics from the sample they examined, Benedict defended the study. "It's absolutely fair," he said.

http://www.onlineathens.com/1998/102998/1029.s1viol.html

on the other hand, go to a far away country and kill few towel heads, and you're a hero!

usa! usa!! usa!!!

[freedumb2003]

Oh yeah, and this (2 posts):

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treepig (1000+ posts) Fri Apr-23-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #40

46. so one of bush's willing executioner's is a true hero of yours?

Edited on Fri Apr-23-04 08:59 PM by treepig
yeah, whatever.

personally, somebody who volunteers to go use our $450 billion war machine to slaughter innocent third world, poverty-stricken civilians (while the real terrorists are airlifted out of the country - or never were in afghanistan in the first place - courtesy of pakistan's isi) is no hero of mine.

thankfully i'll be dead, but in 20 years all the orphans that he and his ilk have created - i.e, the new crop of terrorists, will be over here killing my kids, and possibly even yours. a true patriot hero indeed.

in the past i've taken shit on this board for mentioning that the troops "volunteered" to go be part of the imperialistic american war machine. i was told in no uncertain terms that they were all naive troops who signed up during the benign clinton administration in hopes of getting an otherwise unobtainable college education. well, this guy definitely does not fit that mold at all.



everyone i know who joined the military after 9-11 did so out of pure bloodlust - gotta go even the score by blindly lashing out at whatever convenient target presents itself. in no cases was their any sentiment to obtain justice in any meaningful sense of the word - nope, we just gotta go nuke somebody, anybody (if that were only possible) - to show how tough we were. and anybody, even well intentioned, who had an iq above 35 or so should have been able to figure out with the head-up-their-asses cold-war leaders this country had after 9-11 - military interventions were sure to occur and be disastrous. anybody who walked into aiding and abetting these criminals with their eyes wide open, as this wonderkid did, deserves nothing but scorn.


so what have i done for my country? damn little - but at least i'm not all gung-ho to spawn a future generation of terrorists. on the positive side, i've paid enough taxes to pay for a least a bit of depleted uranium amunition - which i've been told will go on killing the evil, evil people over in afganistan for 4.5 billion years or so. perhaps it'll take even take out a few more wedding parties now and again - maybe even a few morecanadian infantrymen, sure, it's not much, but consider it baby steps. baby steps for america




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SkeptyCal (699 posts) Fri Apr-23-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #46

52. Thanks for saying what I wanted to say.


He looked like a bloodthirsty maniac to me. I think he also had a death wish cause he was into skydiving and other daredevil stuff.

I don't see a hero unless you want your kids to emulate him by taking people's lives for oil or some other dumbreason. Blind patriotism is not heroic imho.


"In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile." -HST

[Dog]

Travis....Fox had a report earlier that said Tillman clung to life for 12 hours after the firefight after being wounded.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

thanks!

[texasbluebell]

I heard on Fox earlier that he was airlifted to Bagram and died 12 hours, as you said, after the fight.

And it was a brutal firefight, lasting 20 minutes with rpgs and other heavy stuff. Two soldiers fighting beside him were badly wounded but are expected to make it.

[Valin]

"Specialist Tillman was clearly a patriot but I think that exemplifies ultimately the patriotism of every soldier, seaman, airman and Marine serving in Afghanistan today ... everybody here is serving and is truly a patriot," Beevers said.

Very well put. And something to bear in mind on this NFL draft day.

[Eagle Eye]

If every patrol or convoy waited for close air support there wouldn't be much going on at all. Not enough air assets to cover the entire areas.

Ambushes are common. If you were them, wouldn't you do it in similar fashion?

[Valin]

I guess it's true, we really do live in two different nations. I would love to have a chat with these...people(for lack of a better word).

Back in the early 70s ( I'm a cop in the AF at the time) I run into some idiots like these. Asked them if they were pacifists, yes they said. Good because I'm not(says I), and the AF has spents 10s of thousands of dollars to train me how to beat the crap out of people, so shut you F...ing trap and go away...or else.

[freedumb2003]

Good because I'm not(says I), and the AF has spents 10s of thousands of dollars to train me how to beat the crap out of people, so shut you F...ing trap and go away...or else.

My nomination for QOTD! (if I kmew how to do it)

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

NEVER FORGET


"TILLMAN gave up his lifestyle.

...Then he gave up his life.

...He could have been making millions, but he defended millions instead.

...He could have been playing a sport that captivates a nation, but he fought a war to free a nation.

...He could have been living a boyhood dream, but he died a man's man.

...PAT TILLMAN could have been a football hero.

...He chose to be an American Hero instead."



....this from today's OC Register

http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=91907&section=NEWS&subsection=NEWS&year=2004&month=4&day=24


NEVER FORGET