Union troops used Confederate officers as human shields

newsleader ^ | April 24, 2004 | Terry Shulman

[x]

Bottom line is the Civil War should have ended in a year. The only thing that kept the South in the war for four years was general ineptitude on the part of the Union generals.

The Union army did have some very bad commanders, but the South was a large area, and the "science" of warfare still hadn't caught up with the new inventions of the era, like railroads and the telegraph. It would probably have taken more than a year to figure out how to win a modern war, even had all the commanders been as talented as Grant or Jackson.

A shorter war, over in a few months or a year or two would likely have been the prelude to a long guerilla struggle. Four years of war is exhausting and convinces the defeated that their cause is lost. A quicker result isn't as convincing, and doesn't discourage the losers from taking up partisan or guerrilla warfare. That's what we're seeing now.

[PeaRidge]

"He especially loved his time in the deep south."

"You can't just discount the dozens of letters he wrote to various family members prior to, during, and after the war. You can take a phrase here...a phrase there, out of context, and display any viewpoint you wish."

And you cannot excuse his behavior of threatening extermination of people and later in reality burning and starving them into submission by saying that he really did have "love" of the South.

Nor can you try to mislabel factual descriptions of his actions as a "viewpoint" out of context rather than documented. acts.

"I'll also add his infamous 'terms of surrender' of which he was almost courtmartialed over, undermines your viewpoint in my humble opinion."

That might be the case if his original intent was as you describe. But it wasn't.

"The days of the Confederacy were numbered. Striving to avoid capture in Virginia, President Jefferson Davis arrived in Greensboro on April 11 and summoned Johnston to assess the strength of his army. Although Davis felt the South could continue the war, the confirmation of Lee's surrender prompted him to allow Johnston to confer with Sherman.

On April 17 Johnston and Sherman met at Bennitt farm. Before negotiations began Sherman showed Johnston a telegram announcing the assassination of President Lincoln. Unaware of the difficulties this tragedy would create, the generals began their conference.

Sherman was prepared to offer terms like those Grant gave Lee - military terms only.

Johnston wanted "to arrange the terms of a permanent peace," including political terms.

At the second meeting on April 18, Sherman submitted "a basis of agreement" which Johnston accepted. This liberal document provided for an armistice terminable at 48 hours notice, disbanding armies following the deposit of arms in state arsenals, recognition of state government, establishment of federal courts, restoration of political and civil rights, and a general amnesty.

Jefferson Davis approved these terms, but the Union rejected them in light of hostilities in Washington following the assassination. Grant instructed Sherman to re-negotiate terms similar to those given Lee at Appomattox.

Davis, who opposed the more stringent terms, ordered Johnston to disband the infantry and escape with the mounted troops. Realizing the tragedy of a prolonged war, Johnston disobeyed orders and met Sherman again at the Bennitt farm on April 26. The final agreement was simply a military surrender which ended the war in the Carolinas, Georgia, and Florida, and affected 89,270 soldiers.

"Sherman believed in Union, above all else."

Which would then lead him to the following mental construct:

Right and might makes right. War is Hell, ain't it y'all?

[#3Fan]

No ma'am I would not be suprised. With ancestors from the 6th NC Cavalry, 23rd NC Infantry, and 16th NC Infantry I not only haven't forgotten, I remind the yankees I work with daily about it.

Oh boy. What the hell are they going to do about it? lol

[billbears]

Never said they'll do anything about it. But it gives me the chance to educate those that have learned from 4th grade history books the true causes of the war. Those that listen come away with more respect for their Southern brethren and less for the northern tyrant

And if in some small way I contribute to the prevention of another bagel shop being built, that's good enough for me ;)

[Blue Scourge]

oh great....it's the "News misleader".....their op-ed section gives the NY times a run for it's money.

[Morgan's Raider]

An aside, but the currently much-discussed and cussed posse comitatus act came about as a direct result of the inability of our blue-clad northern visitors to behave themselves in polite company in the immediate aftermath of the recent unpleasantness. How the hell this act ever became warped and twisted to claim that the military can't be used to protect our borders is beyond me.

BTW, we were using the ploy mentioned in this article a year earlier at Vicksburg. Yankee prisoners were locked in the upper floor of the courthouse to deter the Union navy from shelling it. This act probably saved that marvelous building from destruction, leaving it as one of the few remaining antebellum courthouses in the South. If you ever go to Vicksburg it is a must-see.

[#3Fan]

Never said they'll do anything about it. But it gives me the chance to educate those that have learned from 4th grade history books the true causes of the war. Those that listen come away with more respect for their Southern brethren and less for the northern tyrant

I'm sure like most neoconfederates on these boards, you never mention the Declarations of Secession, the Fort Pillow incident, the formation of the Ku Klux Klan, etc. You guys are no different than the media, only telling half the story all the time.

And if in some small way I contribute to the prevention of another bagel shop being built, that's good enough for me ;)

Don't like 'em, don't go to 'em. Something wrong with free enterprize?

[Kozak]

We won You lost Get over it. </joking mode>,

Saw a bumper sticker in NC a few weeks ago:

North 1
South 0

GAMES NOT OVER

[Lazamataz]

Now that I am in the South, I know what side my bread is buttered on.

I hate the Union! Down with Lincoln! Grant sucks! Long live Longstreet!

[Lazamataz]

I am a very bad man.

PING!

[Badeye]

I think what strikes me the most is what you fail to note.

We agree to disagree....(grin)

[Badeye]

"Put the US Constitution and the CSA Constitution side by side. You say sovereignty is a bad theory?"

Not at all. My point is the fixation on States Rights, while great most of the time, resulted in shortages for Lee's army, not to mention the CSA armies of the west and deep south. My example concerning the fact that Georgia had over 50K complete sets of uniforms at the time of Lee's surrender is a great example of this. Georgia's leaders refused to make the uniforms available, citing in effect "states rights".

Collective defense, when faces with the extermination of the CSA as a political entity, in hindsight admittedly, contributed to the end of the Army of Northern Virginia in the spring of 1865. Would the war have ended differently? I doubt it. But it wouldn't have ended in April of that year, in my honest opinion.

It was never about courage, or valor, or tactics in the last two years. It was as it always has been, about logistics. The political viewpoint held by the hardcore States Rights crowd seriously impeded the logistical needs of the Army of Northern Virginia in the end.

[Badeye]

"The Union army did have some very bad commanders, but the South was a large area, and the "science" of warfare still hadn't caught up with the new inventions of the era, like railroads and the telegraph. It would probably have taken more than a year to figure out how to win a modern war, even had all the commanders been as talented as Grant or Jackson. "

Sorry, I don't hold Jackson in that high of regard. I know, I know...HERESY!.....LOL!

Jackson should have been destroyed in detail during the Valley Campaign. His command survived due in large part to the ineptitude of the Union Generals, such as the laughable Fremont, for just one example. Note the three primary Generals Jackson defeated were either forced out of the Union Army, or delegated to regions of little importance to the war effort of the time.

Many people like to play "what if"....I'm one of them. I firmly believe if Jackson had been at Gettysburg, he would have charged the heights at the end of the day, July 1st, 1963.

And he would have been crushed. (I know, HERESY!....LOL)

Just my opinion, after war gaming it several hundred times, reading everything I can get my hands on concerning the subject.

[stand watie]

GM, ma'am!

free dixie,sw

[Leisler]

No. I was thinking of a phrase in the beginning of, ".. and they were no more", that is the entire extermination of enemies of the tribe of Israel. In other words, war is hell.

[WhiskeyPapa]

North 1
South 0

GAMES NOT OVER

Treason.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Lee had as little success outside Virginia as Hooker, Burnside and Pope had within it.

The western Union army basically advanced unchecked from Paducah, KY to Atlanta, Savannah, and north into the Carolinas, with only the single check at Chickamauga.

Nashville was held by the insrgents for less than a year. The seceded states, so-called, had Union troops within their "borders" every day of the rebellion.

Walt

[Badeye]

"Lee had as little success outside Virginia as Hooker, Burnside and Pope had within it.
The western Union army basically advanced unchecked from Paducah, KY to Atlanta, Savannah, and north into the Carolinas, with only the single check at Chickamauga.

Nashville was held by the insrgents for less than a year. The seceded states, so-called, had Union troops within their "borders" every day of the rebellion.

Walt"

I agree completely with the observation about Lee. History shows clearly Lee's ability on the offensive was competent, at best....ill advised at worst. Neither "northern invasion" acheived the desired goals. If not for McClellan being....well, McClellan, Antietam would have resulted in the complete and total destruction of the Army of Northern Virginia.

I don't agree with the assertion that the Western Union army advanced "unchecked". While the South proved incapable of stopping the army of Grant, then Sherman, in that theater, they did in fact put up fierce resistance, from Forts Donnelly and....(can't remember the other one Grant captured). And it was a stalemate for months at Vicksburg, as we know. Kennesaw Mountain also comes to mind, and the battle for Atlanta, while another defeat, was contested with vigor by the Southern forces available, once the "Great Retreater" was removed from command. That it was in fact a series of ongoing defeats on the field of battle, I wouldn't catagorize it as "unchecked", if for no other reason than it kind of slights the Southern forces that did the fighting, and dying.

This is one of the great things about discussing the CW, the back and forth of all aspects. While I dispute some of your points, I greatly appreciate them.

[justshutupandtakeit]

There was no WBTS. You might have it confused with the RAT Rebellion brought to us by RATS, for RATS and through RATS.