Why are Christians losing America?

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, April 28, 2004 | David Kupelian

[Ff--150]

there are countless "Christians" who believe they have a ticket to Heaven, and nothing else really matters very much to them. Their attitude can only be described as brazen. They live lives of shallowness and selfishness, of petty emotions and jealousies, of distraction and escape, of ego and pride, and sometimes of gross corruption and treachery – remember, Clinton is a churchgoing "Christian."

LOL! Yours truly really didn't write this, honest =-].

The conservative/Christian fad has run its course. Now it's time to go back to the "good-ol'-days" where liberals and psuedo-conservatives, sorry, neo-cons, are back where they think they belong.

[Vision]

Because we're too lazy

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams, October 11, 1798

"Have you ever found in history, one single example of a Nation thoroughly corrupted that was afterwards restored to virtue?... And without virtue, there can be no political liberty....Will you tell me how to prevent riches from becoming the effects of temperance and industry? Will you tell me how to prevent luxury from producing effeminacy, intoxication, extravagance, vice and folly?..."
- John Adams, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed."

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom."

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
- Patrick Henry

[4CJ]

#1 reason - destruction of the "family". Christians, and by that I mean real Christians, not CINO's, believe the Bilblical principle that work is rewarded (no welfare), and that FAMILIES care for their elderly, children and widows.

But what we have is the antithesis of that - when most look for handouts (SS, welfare, grants etc) or payouts (litigation or lotteries).

[Lost Highway]

I appreciate what the article says but, as a Christian, a few things jump out at me. The debate as to whether a Christian should be involved in politics is as old as Christianity itself. Two, this world will always have evil. As hard as we try it will never go away. Three, culture wars are not won through political action but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

So if one can do some good through politics then great. But, as I read the New Testament, I have a higer calling which is to spread the good news that Jesus Christ was crucified and rose from the dead so that through him I could be saved.

"Everybody today seems to be in such a terrible rush, anxious for greater developments and greater riches and so on, so that children have very little time for their parents. Parents have very little time for each other, and in the home begins the disruption of peace of the world." - Mother Teresa

[Just mythoughts]

Matthew 7:21

Not every one that saith unto Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.

22. Many will say to ME in that day, 'Lord, Lord,' have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?'

23 And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from ME, ye that work iniquity.'

[Middle Man]

"Not if you were one of those burned on the stake"

Many early Christians were burned at the stake. Emperor Nero used to throw garden parties at which the entertainment and lighting was Christians tied to stakes and set aflame.

Your comprehension of Christianity sounds like it was formed by one reading of "The Crucible" in high school.

[u-89]

>Why are Christians losing America?

It's more like America is losing Christians and this is nothing new. By 1800 Harvard and Yale had become unitarian along with other elite schools. Considering the Calvinist roots of New England that evolution was quite an event. The 19th century saw further drift of Christianity with the advent of socialism and the progressive movements and the idea of creating heaven on earth using government to accomplish the Lord's work came into vogue.

All in all one can not say the church has not been in a healthy state for most of US history. It's been a long downhill slide away from Christ since colonial days and over time the number and effectiveness of the faithful has diminished to where we are today.

[ZULU]

Christians are loosing America for the same reason that Americans are loosing America.

We have allowed extreme, fanatical left-wing elements to monopolize all the major mainstream media, the public school systems and the universities, colleges and entertainment media.

ALL of these elements are capable of propagandizing the minds of the public, especially the young. They produce the attorneys who become the judges and lawyers who, in large part make our laws and constitute our courts.

Unless we become a LESS TOLERANT society, a society which refuses to allow leftists to restructure our nation, this trend will continue.

When was the last time you saw an army of protestors in the street protesting abortions, unconstitutional gun laws, wacko court decisions, or insane school policies? Conservatives are, by their very nature, not proactive and demonstrative. They don't exercise "civil disobedience" to insane laws.

The left has no qualms about disobeying laws they deem inappropriate, defying authority, massing in the streets, monopolizing the media, seizing control of the schools, etc., etc.

[american spirit]

Obviously, there have been numerous contributing factors to the decline of Christianity but without a doubt the number one reason is the fact that the vast majority of churches have acquired the 501-C3 status from the IRS in order to obtain certain tax exemptions and benefits. In making this proverbial "deal with the devil" churches forfeit their sovereignty because they in effect, become corporations (or artificial entities that have no soul) subject to the dictates of the corresponding IRS regulations.

These regulations are so strict that pastors are effectively muzzled from criticizing fedgov "policies" in any of their sermons, which is why we don't see the fire and brimstone from the pulpit any more. There are no major public condemnations of homosexuality, earth worship, abortion, etc. from the thousands of preachers we have in this country, all we seem to see these days are the milquestoast laden "series of messages" from those supposed church leaders who've become odorless, colorless and tasteless in their quest "not to offend anyone". By using this philosphy, these pastors have effectively removed themselves and their congregations from the battle vs. the demonic, humanistic and socialistic forces the pervade the media, academia and political structures of this country. I highly suggest that these pastors and church elders remind themeselves that they canot serve two masters.

[Lost Highway]

Yet the even though the younger generations are the most unchristian violent crime rate has declined through this period, as well as The pregnancy rate for unmarried women has continuously declined through the 1990s and the abortion rate dropped by about 25 percent for both married and unmarried women through the 1990s , The teen Pregnancy Rate Reached a Record Low, More Teenagers are saying no to sex and Drug use by teenagers continues to decline.

Christianity and Morality do not correlate, If Christianity vanishes it will have no effect on whether our country is moral or not

Interesting conclusion. I would be interested in seeing how those numbers break down between the two groups. I'd be willing to bet the Christian kids have stopped having sex in much greater numbers while the non-Christian have stayed relatively flat.

[atlaw]

"The debate as to whether a Christian should be involved in politics is as old as Christianity itself."

The debate is particularly significant in a pluralistic, constitutional republic (such as the U.S.), where there are competing belief systems under a common political umbrella. The consequence of mixing Christianity with politics in such a system is an inevitable watering down of core Christian beliefs.

A fine example of this can be found in the arguments made to the Supreme Court on the meaning of "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Those supporting the retention of the phrase argued in no uncertain terms that "under God" was an innocuous, and effectively meaningless, phrase that had no religious significance or connotation. By this argument, "under God" was reduced to a cultural catch phrase similar to "have a nice day."

This marginalizing of God for minor (and meaningless) political gain inevitably finds its way into the Church itself - leading to precisely the problems addressed in the article above.

[Sam's Army]

"Not if you were one of those burned on the stake"

Yeah, that happens weekly still doesn't it?

"...but after Constantine converted the Empire and the more Christian it got the worse off it became."

Yes, let's improve society and worship Baccus!

[Caleb1411]

BTTT

[TightyRighty]

When my sister was a Junior in high school the school council voted whether or not to allow the Gay and Lesbian Club on its high school campus. My mother called her church (which is the one of the largest churches in the city) and asked what they were planning to do to help get this voted down and the youth pastor told her nothing because they didn't want to "upset anyone".

[Paved Paradise]

JOHN - you are definitely one of my favorite posters on this site and have been for some time. This was very powerful and so true. I am truly scared for this country because I see this everywhere. May God have mercy on me the things I don't do (even more than what I do) and for all of us.

[Taliesan]

It's not a coincidence that the branches of Christianity (like Catholics) that accepted evolution are the only ones growing while those who haven't (and come up with ignorant lies about it like Intelligent design) have vanished or are in rapid decline around the world.

Not only is it not a coincidence, it is not true.

[ride the whirlwind]

One reason for the multitude of attacks on Christianity is that evil always attacks good – because it is good – because good shines a bright and painful light on the works of darkness.

If we think it's bad here.....in North Korea, professing Christians are thrown into concentration camps to endure horrors beyond imagination and used as slave labor until they die or are killed.

Did you ever wonder why American founders like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin completely rejected institutional Christianity – what some call "Churchianity"? Maybe even back then too many of the churches were just too pale a reflection of Christ's true message for them to stomach.

Interesting and I think many feel this way today. Yet, I don't think things are as totally bleak as this article might leave one to believe. There are shallow Christians-in-name-only, there always have been. But there are also many doing God's work in new and vigorous ways and they should get some credit too.

[Taliesan]

culture wars are not won through political action but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Finally, somebody who has read the New Testament.

Anybody who thinks America can become more or less "Christian" by political action or by arguing over moral or cultural issues has YET to understand the Jesus of the gospels. It can't possibly be more clear that:

1. Jesus had NO interest in influencing politics

2. Jesus had NO interest in discussions of moral issues, per se, in isolation from a relationship with Himself. He made occasional comments, but the thrust of his work was invariably to teach people how to live in something He called "the kingdom", which He explicitly said was "not of this world".

3. Jesus had NO interest in reforming society by any method other than a personal devotion to His person and His utterances.

It was His scandalous LACK OF INTEREST in politics and wider culture (plus other things) that got Him in trouble.

The Jesus of the gospels is still a stumbling block to people who think Christians and churches have ANY mandate OTHER than to go into the world and teach individuals to individually respond to Jesus. Anything else has always failed and will fail. Anything else is a distraction from the gospel and is, then, a false gospel.

To the degree that "Christianity" is losing its influence on Western culture, it is simply and solely because there is a great falling away on the part of individual "Christians".

"Political non-involvement" seems to be one of the authors' bad things to be. I can't imagine how anybody could read the New Testament and find ANYTHING OTHER than a clear, willful, systematic, proud "political non-involvement" on the part of Jesus and His followers.

[american spirit]

I ran into the same type of paralysis when I was trying rally some of my Sunday School classmates to go down to the local school board meeting to speak against GOALS 2000, School to Work and all that other nonsense a few years ago. After I told them what I wanted to do, I got that "deer in the headlights" look from some of them and it was painfully obvious that they were not about to stand up publicly in opposition to these new fedgov programs. That's when it hit me that many of these folks are woefully unprepared to confront these organizations that are slowly de-constructing America. For that, I blame these alleged church leaders who are seemingly more concerned about cash flow than the future of this country.

[RinaseaofDs]

Agree completely.

The notions of personal salvation and national sovereignty are historically linked. In the Bible, in Gibbons books on the Fall of Rome, and in the general history of Western Civilization.

I am saved, but am enslaved by sin. The writer leaves out Paul's reference to the 'thorn in his side', and all of the other flaws in the instruments he's chosen to do his will.

Salvation is a journey that starts with a heartfelt declaration.

As it applies to countries and nations, Satan has been placed in control of Earth. He said as much to Jesus in the desert. Christians never really controlled America, but I do believe that as we cleave to Him, He cleaves to us, and vice versa. We are an instrument of His will.

We here in America place our faith in horses and soldiers. We'll see where that actually takes us.