Lack of blood, bruises and dirt give hint that army 'abuse' pictures were staged

The Times ^ | May 03, 2004 | Richard Mills

[Eurotwit]

The photographer Richard Mills tells why 'the evidence' does not add up

THERE are a significant number of inconsistencies with these pictures that leave me convinced that they have been staged. The subjects in each image are remarkably still; it is hard to accept that the “victim” would not be moving at all.

There is no explanation why the pictures are in black and white. If they were taken with a digital camera, as has been suggested, the photographer would have to switch deliberately into “mono” mode rather than the default colour.

Most striking is the lack of any form of identification on the soldier in each picture shown “abusing” the Iraqi. There are no badges on his uniform, no markings on the rifle and neither does he have any rings, tattoos or identifying marks on his skin.

Rifle to head. The rifle is said by some observers to be the Mark 1 model of the SA80, which was not issued to troops in Iraq. More suspiciously, there are no markings whatsoever on the weapon and it looks too clean. It also lacks a new method of strapping around the muzzle that I saw troops using.

Urinating. The soldier shown urinating on the prisoner is wearing the wrong webbing belt, which is used to carry ammunition, water and other essentials. Troops in Iraq were issued “Soldier 95” webbing.

The picture has been taken at night, as there is black in the gap between the truck canopy and tailgate on the right-hand side of the image.

If the truck was actually in Iraq, it would be filled with sand and dirt, but its floor is almost spotless. This suggests that they could have been taken either at Catterick Garrison, North Yorkshire, the Army’s largest base, or in Cyprus, where The Queen’s Lancashire Regiment is stationed.

The “victim” does not have the physique of many Iraqi youths from the impoverished south of the country: rather, he has the muscle tone typical of a British soldier.

Stamping on neck. The shirt being worn by the victim is part of the Iraqi national football team kit and could not be that clean and unstained if he had been subjected to several hours’ beating. It depicts the flag of Baathist Iraq, and it is unlikely that anyone would wear this in public in the Shia south of the country.

His thighs are very broad and muscular and again uncharacteristic of an Iraqi. There are no visible injuries to back the Mirror’s claims that the victim was tortured and beaten.

The soldier’s boots are laced in an unusual way and appear to be brand new; they are certainly far too clean to have been worn in Iraq. He also lacks a bungy cord around his trousers that soldiers often wear to keep sand out of their boots.

Rifle in groin. Anyone having a rifle thrust into their groin would be curled up in a foetal position and not have their legs open. It is also quite likely he would have lost control of his bladder.

Kick in face. The so-called victim in this picture is not tensed, as he would be if he was really being kicked in the face. Again, there are no injuries, which would be visible had the victim been subjected to an eight-hour ordeal.

The four-tonne truck in which the pictures have been taken is another cause for concern. They are not used in Iraq, as they are considered to be sitting ducks for insurgents. Armoured vans that had been used in Northern Ireland were shipped there for that reason.

Richard Mills was a Royal Air Force photographer from 1987 to 2000 and now works for The Times. His pictures of British troops in Iraq won the What The Papers Say Awards Photographer of the Year 2003

[Eurotwit]

Torture photos are fakes, say army officers
y Michael Evans and Stephen Grey in Basra

Military police fly to Cyprus as calls for investigation gather pace


PICTURES that appear to show a hooded Iraqi prisoner being abused and beaten by British soldiers are almost certainly fake, senior officers concluded yesterday.
Ministry of Defence officials promised that the photographs, which first appeared in Saturday’s Daily Mirror, would be thoroughly investigated, amid fears that they could anger Iraqi civilians. “We have to take these allegations seriously,” one source said.

But the photographs, said to have been taken during an eight-hour “torture ordeal” in the back of an army truck, appear to have been staged, according to officers.

Senior investigators from the Royal Military Police were flying to Cyprus yesterday to interview soldiers from the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, some of whose troops are said to have been involved in the alleged incident in Basra. While stressing the army’s determination to investigate, some senior officers have cast doubt on the pictures’ authenticity. They point that the alleged victim appears to have no injuries, and no sign of sweat or blood. “His shirt looks immaculate, and the boot raised against the Iraqi looks as if it is held there for the picture,” one officer said.



Piers Morgan, Editor of the Daily Mirror, said that the two soldiers who supplied the pictures and made the allegations had revealed more details of brutal treatment of Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers.

The published photographs have come at a time when the MoD is drawing up options for sending several thousand more troops to Iraq to take charge of a new area of the country south of Baghdad, including the volatile city of Najaf where thousands of militia loyal to an extremist Shia Muslim cleric are based.

Defence sources said that one of the options was to send the headquarters element of 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines to command the reinforcements. The Royal Marines were the first to deploy to Iraq before the war last March and have not been back since the military campaign ended. A political decision on sending more troops is expected shortly.

With more troops expected to be on their way to Iraq in the next few weeks, senior army sources said that it was vital that the allegations against the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment be cleared up quickly because of the damage to Britain’s reputation in Iraq.

Isobel Jones, widow of Captain Dai Jones of the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment who was killed by a roadside bomb in Basra last year, said she fully supported her late husband’s regiment, although if there had been any mistreatment of an Iraqi prisoner it was “utterly indefensible”. She told The Times that it would be “very sad” if a rogue element had taken part in such an incident because it would have let down the rest of the regiment.

She dismissed any suggestion that there may have been revenge attacks on Iraqis for the death of her husband.

In Cyprus it was reported that a former member of the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment would be questioned as well as serving members.

The MoD also confirmed yesterday that the Royal Military Police and the RAF police were involved in the investigation of ten other alleged incidents of mistreatment of Iraqi civilians by British soldiers, in which seven had died. With two of the deaths, the MoD said, there “was no case to answer”. So far, five of the cases had been completed, and five were still under investigation.

Only one of the five cases completed is believed to involve the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment. A soldier from the regiment is facing a possible manslaughter charge after the death in custody of Baha Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist.

The challenge with the latest allegation of mistreatment is that none of the photographs provides any distinguishing features, either of the victim or of his alleged assailants. There are no faces visible, no tattoos, not even a watch strap.

Mr Morgan issued a statement yesterday in which he stood by his decision to publish the photographs. He refused to be drawn on whether the Mirror paid for the pictures, which are believed to have earned his newspaper about £100,000 when sold to other media organisations.

However, he said that his reporters had gone back to the two soldiers who had supplied the photographs and they “stood firmly by every word” of their allegations, and the “veracity” of the pictures.

Mr Morgan said: “There’s clearly a rogue element of soldiers who committed totally unacceptable acts against Iraqi civilians.” He said he had no reason to believe that the photographs had been faked. But army sources said it had not been unknown for soldiers to do a staged photograph for their own use, although they stressed that this type of behaviour was also condemned and unlawful.

In Basra yesterday, Iraqis expressed their anger at the photos. Saad Jamal, 27, an engineer, said: “This behaviour gives a reason for people to join the militia.”

Lieutenant-Colonel Jorge Mendonca, commanding officer of the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, has appealed to his men to come forward if they have any information about the photographs.

[RegT]

Even if these turn out to be fake, the damage has regrettably been done by those retards in Abu Ghraib prison.

[Eurotwit]

There is a really depressing analysis done by some senior analyst in Jane's

'Another week like this and the last wheel will fall off'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1096453,00.html

I decided against posting it.

And this is the latest from Fallujah:

"Around their deaths savage legends are already building. The gravedigger claims they were dismembered by US forces, who carved a crucifix into the forehead of the one adult with them.

Of this there is no evidence. But no matter. These are the tales that will spread from Fallujah to the Arab world and they will — with images of US brutality at Abu Ghraib prison fresh in angry minds — reach an audience willing to believe."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1096434,00.html

---

[hole_n_one]

As luck would have it, I've also got a bridge for sale.......

[FITZ]

Was there a lot of blood in the ones showing the abuse from the Americans?

[MizSterious]

Sadly, this is probably true--no stopping a juicy lie everyone wants to believe anyway, and Al Jazeera and all the rest will repeat them ad nauseum. Wish I had a good solution to offer, but I'm stymied. If these U.K. pictures are fake, the fakers did a good job of sabotage. Not sure what to think about the U.S. pictures at this point, except to say that in no way was this treatment anywhere near as bad as what the Iraqis did to their own.

[jocon307]

Nice bridge, the water looks really nice & blue in that picture.

The lefties may get their knickers in a twist about this. As for the so-called arab street, well they hate us anyway, so what's the diff? As for the rest of us, well it's a shame if prisoners were abused, but we all know we need to hang together, or surely the islamists will hang us seprately.

I'm sorry, if they don't like it, they shouldn't have started it.

[Dog]

You are missing something.... if the British photos are fake.... The Mirror has some serious explaining to do.

Someone at that paper has declared war on the British military.

[tsmith130]

I haven't seen the British pictures. Any known links (that don't require me to register!)?

[Baynative]

Ah, HAA I knew it the truth is out

"Lack of blood, bruises and dirt gave hint that..."

I've been waiting for the media to print the truth that...Oh wait - this isn't the article about Vince Foster?
I'm sorry, I'll check back later... so long for now.

[Reactionary]

Of course they're fakes. My guess is the Marxist Islamic KLA propagandists are at work for militant Islam (and militant Stalinist liberalism).

[hole_n_one]

Of course they're fakes. My guess is the Marxist Islamic KLA propagandists are at work for militant Islam (and militant Stalinist liberalism).

Don't forget PETA and SAG

[Paul Atreides]

ANSWER has been fairly quiet, of late. Hmmmm....

[BlessedBeGod]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14199634%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=shame%2dof%2dabuse%2dby%2dbrit%2dtroops-name_page.html

[Gone_Postal]

True or not at lest it wasn't pictures of burnt American corpses hanging from an Iraqi bridge behind a mob of grinning Muslims.

[mikegi]

Someone yesterday posted a link to the abuse photos. Some of them were clearly from porn. A search on google turns up numerous similar photos (pretty disgusting ones, too).

[hole_n_one]

Pics of alledged British troop abuse of Iraqi prisoners....

[not2worry]

IMHO, we will never really know what happened.

This is WAR and propaganda can take many forms. If John Kerry can be put one row behind Jane Fonda at a 70's rally, is it impossible that these photos could have been doctored as well?

As far as man-o-man oral sex, while it is condemned by Muslims, I understand it is a fairly unspoken practice.

The most humiliating factor for the Muslims was probably that it was a "woman" giving them orders. Probably the first time a woman had authority and they are making sure it doesn't happen again.

Next Muslim request........remove all your female personnel from Iraq. Or have them wear headscarves and cover themselves from head to toe. If USA does not comply, Muslims will beat, rape and torture the women in similar fashion as they have done to their wives and daughters.

Something is not shaking out. I'd like to know more about the Reservist who provided the photos to CBS and want, if anything, he was paid.

[yooper]

"Someone at that paper has declared war on the British military."

No they haven't. It's much simpler than that, and the article even mentions the paper's motive: money.

Any newspaper worth it's salt would have a photo editor who would have noticed the things mentioned in this article. The paper saw a chance to make a quick buck and published the pictures without submitting them to serious scrutiny.

[hole_n_one]

IMHO, we will never really know what happened.

This is WAR and propaganda can take many forms. If John Kerry can be put one row behind Jane Fonda at a 70's rally, is it impossible that these photos could have been doctored as well?

May 2, 2004

Top U.S. General Tries to Calm Furor Over Prisoner Abuse

By BRIAN KNOWLTON,
International Herald Tribune

ASHINGTON, May 2 — The top American military officer, seeking to counter damaging reports about abuse of Iraqi prisoners, insisted today that only "a handful" of American troops were to blame, but said he could not absolutely rule out that this was part of a wider pattern.

The officer, Gen. Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he had yet to receive a full report on the problems at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghad. So while he deplored the abuse as "appalling," he could not absolutely assert that it was the end of the problem.

Reports and photos appearing to show gruesome abuse and humiliation have been widely reproduced by Arab-language newspapers and television stations, creating one of the worst public-relations debacles for the United States-led occupation.

Given the highly inflammatory nature of the accusations — prisoners reported to have been stripped and pressured with threats of rape, sodomy and electric shock — one senior Democratic senator, Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, chastised the Bush administration for not seeming to react to the matter with greater shock, outrage and urgency.

General Myers repeatedly and roundly condemned the use of torture as "appalling," unacceptable and not in keeping with American military standards.

"Torture is not one of the methods that we're allowed to use and that we use," General Myers said. "I mean, it's just not permitted by international law, and we don't use it."

Echoing comments by President Bush, he said, "It's really a shame that just a handful can besmirch maybe the reputations of hundreds of thousands of our soldiers and sailors, airmen and Marines."

General Myers gave slightly differing answers, however, on whether such mistreatment might have been systemic, possibly encouraged by military or intelligence officials demanding that prisoners be emotionally broken quickly to provide needed information.

In one television appearance, General Myers said that "there is no evidence of systematic abuse" of prisoners being held by coalition forces.

But in another interview, when asked how he could be certain that prisoner abuses were not more widespread, General Myers replied: "I'm not sure of it."

"If we find out it is, then we've got to take action" to prevent any further abuses, he said on the CBS News program "Face the Nation."

The military, General Myers added, was investigating prisoner treatment not just in Iraq but in Afghanistan.

On Saturday, the British military said that it had launched an investigation into photographs published in the mass-circulation Daily Mirror that appeared to show troops beating and urinating on an Iraqi prisoner in a camp near Basra in British-controlled southern Iraq, Agence France-Presse reported from London.

The British Broadcasting Corporation reported, however, that there were doubts on the authenticity of the photos.

Prime Minister Tony Blair said on Saturday that if the photos proved genuine, such treatment was "completely and utterly unacceptable." And Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said that the accusations were being taken "extremely seriously."

General Myers said he thought the United States military would "overcome" the damage from the abuse scandal. Meanwhile, he sought to assure Iraqis that those responsible "will be brought to justice."

"And that's what they should expect from us," he said.

[Tommyjo]

On the weapon there is no assault sling - highly unusual. Also all of the soldiers webbing pouches are open. Something that is instilled/drummed into them during training. That is how kit is easily lost.

[McGavin999]

The government needs to pursue this. If the Mirror posted false pictures, they should be made to pay the $100,000 back to the people they sold the pictures to plus pay an extremely heavy fine to the regimental widows fund. I'm not talking a little fine here, I mean some major money. They should also be made to apologize to the British military AND the British people.

[SoCalPol]

Someone at that paper has declared war on the British military.


The Mirror is the same paper some months back had a
reporter faked his way in as a worker at Buckingham Palace
and took photos etc. to embarrass the royals.

An anti Royal and Leftwing paper

[FITZ]

Okay it was mean to do to one of Saddam Hussein's soldiers --- but I'm sure some of these guys know what real physical torture is --- I'm sure some did some things to some Iranians, Kurds, or Shiites which was far beyond what was done to them. Sure it was mean to do these things -- but these guys aren't exactly Mr. NiceGuy themselves.

[LoudRepublicangirl]

What I am concerned about is if our military can be held for war crimes because of these idiots and what they did.

[Squantos]

Good..............Thanks for the link !!

Seems enemies are going digital vs ballistic trying to win this with BS lies.

Stay safe

[Big Horn]

I smell a rat.

[1066AD]

An anti Royal and Leftwing paper

..and a paper whose circulation has steadily been losing out to Murdoch's "The Sun".

[JLO]

The supposed fake photos are from the UK - NOT the US.

Please read around some more. This is all over the news.

First stop might be to read google news (4,600 news sources they claim) and then do a search within the news category. http://news.google.com/

[A CA Guy]

Soldiers turned in soldiers over this, right?

[Tommyjo]

The UK newspaper that broke the story (Daily Mirror) has today published images of the two soldiers that made the allegations and supplied the images. These are named as 'Soldier A' and 'Soldier B'. Both their faces are pixelated out.

[A_perfect_lady]

I'm sorry, if they don't like it, they shouldn't have started it.

I'm with you. This is war. I'm not surprised they're fake but I wouldn't turn a hair if they weren't. Especially considering what most Arabs would do... and have done... to captives they take. Even at our worst we are inherently more decent. Ask Daniel Pearl.

[Eurotwit]

Sorry, have no time to read. Is busy buying bridge in post number 6 :-)



Off course, I know this is about the British soldiers. IT IS IN BOTH STORIES posted.

Please read the initial POST to a thread before posting to it.

[Tommyjo]

[Tommyjo]

The image posted is "Soldier A" that the newspaper claims to be from the Lancashire Regiment. They also publish in their newspaper an image of "Soldier B" in the drivers seat of an armoured fighting vehicle.

[Eurotwit]

Thanks.

I live in Europe, and my two main newschannels are Sky News and the BBC. They are all over this.


Cheers.

[Tommyjo]

The evidence about the kit/clothing is a very grey area. As serving UK forces myself the wearing of it is very much a mixed bag. From those images published there is no way you can tell that the weapon is either an A1 or A2. The cocking handle is obscured. This is the one tell-tale way of identifying a converted weapon from the earlier model. The papers and TV over here are going made with claims of no trouser twists and the laces on the boots etc, but these are are extremely grey areas. There are many variants to doing up boot laces and some troops find the trouser twists a nuisance and don't wear them. The claims of the hat are laughable - The bondu hat is well documented as being worn - even on patrol in Iraq by UK forces. In time the identities of 'Soldier A' and 'Soldier B' will be revealed. The story has a long way to go yet.

[Eurotwit]

Thanks for the info.

Whatever the truth turns out to be:

- faked
- isolated incident
- widespread abuse

I am afraid that the damage has already been done.

[RottiBiz]

This is WAR and propaganda can take many forms. If John Kerry can be put one row behind Jane Fonda at a 70's rally, is it impossible that these photos could have been doctored as well?

That picture was not a fake!

Best check your facts lest you spread propaganda yourself.

Welcome to Free Republic.

[not2worry]

If you were there then I will accept the fact that the picture is not fake.

I think that the facts are still coming out.

I don't feel I am spreading propaganda by questioning the news. It's a very controversial situation that needs to be verified. Unfortunately, not all is Fair and love and war.

Thanks, for the welcome to Free Republic. I enjoy the exchange of ideas and information.

[Deb]

The BBC is so disappointed. They've stopped running the story every 12 minutes, but haven't said anything about a hoax yet. Wolf Blitzer still has his woody.

[Tommyjo]

Yes I agree. There is also the possibility that they were a reconstruction of events of the allegations. The investigation should bring some clarity on the matter.

[A CA Guy]

I don't see blood in the pictures or the removal of eyes with spoons or anything.

To me, they mostly seem to be discomfort and mind games being done here, not what I would call torture at all.

Now if after I say this, different pictures surface, I could change my mind.

So far it all looks about the same as a Madonna live performance! LOL

[RottiBiz]

No, I wasn't there, but it was thoroughly discussed on Free Republic some months ago.

I wasn't being sarcastic, just thought you should have the correct information.

Go here:

Fake picture thread, Post #103

And the real picture is here:

Fonda/Kerry Rally Picture (1/3 down page)

Hope this convinces you. :-)

[not2worry]

Thanks! What I was trying to express in my post was that if the Kerry/Fonda photos were faked then could it be possible that some or all of the Military scum pictures coming out of Baghdad could have also been duped.

I very much appreciate your taking time to discuss with me. It's communication that is important in getting our opinions properly posted and understood.

Look forward to being part of the Free Republic forum.