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Rescue Workers Say Hybrid Cars a Danger
AP | 5/4/04 | Patrick Walker

Posted on 05/04/2004 12:03:08 PM PDT by The South Texan


Las Vegas SUN

Today: May 04, 2004 at 11:26:29 PDT

Rescue Workers Say Hybrid Cars a Danger

By PATRICK WALTERS
ASSOCIATED PRESS

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -

The growing popularity of hybrid vehicles is a step toward cleaner air and less dependence on gasoline. But for rescuers at accident scenes, they represent a potential new danger: a network of high-voltage circuitry that may require some precise cutting to save a trapped victim.

"You don't want to go crushing anything with hydraulic tools," said Samuel Caroluzzi, an assistant chief with the Norristown Fire Department outside Philadelphia. "It's enough to kill you from what they're telling us in training."

Hybrids draw power from two sources, typically a gas or diesel engine combined with an electric motor. The battery powering the electric motor carries as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery.

That worries those who must cut into cars to rescue people inside.

"If you can't shut it down, you don't know where the high voltage is," said David Dalrymple, an emergency medical technician in New Brunswick, N.J.

Manufacturers have put in place a laundry list of safety checks that the car's computer must go through for the electrical system to run. They've published guides showing where the electric components are on their models; on the Toyota Prius and other hybrids, the high-power cables are colored bright orange to catch the eye of a rescue worker or a mechanic.

But there are concerns over what happens if something goes wrong and the battery, ignition and other points are inaccessible.

"It's the 'what-if' that worries me," said David Castiaux, an instructor for Mid-Del Technology Center in Del City, Okla., who teaches rescue workers about hybrids.

Chris Peterson, a service training instructor for Toyota, said the Prius' electric system should shut down if anything goes wrong. "There should not be high voltage in those cables, but I'm not going to stand up and say there isn't," he said.

First responders are taught to disconnect the battery and turn off the key immediately before cutting into a car, but that's not always possible.

"Years ago you could just cut with your extrication tools through a post, but now you have to look before you cut," said Ken Nelsen, chief of the Iselin Fire Department District 11 in Woodbridge Township, N.J. "It's just another thing you need to worry about."

When air bags started becoming more common in the 1980s, rescue workers became aware of their potential to seriously injure or kill when inflated. Those concerns have been heightened now that the safety devices are being installed in side panels, seats and other areas.

Concerns about hybrids are increasing in large part because of their growing popularity. Sales have risen at an average annual rate of 88.6 percent since 2000 and recent figures show the number of Americans driving them jumped more than 25 percent from 2002 to 2003.

The Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius are common now and more are on the way: hybrid versions of the Ford Escape, Honda Accord and Lexus SUV this year, and a Toyota Highlander in 2005.

The Alachua County Fire Rescue in Gainesville, Fla., even has two hybrids of its own. Although its crews haven't had to deal with a hybrid crash, they've been getting versed on what to do when it happens, said Cliff Chapman, assistant chief.

They know not to cut into a hybrid's doors - that's where many of the cables are - and to peel off the roof instead. They also now operate under the assumption that a car is energized, wearing rubber gloves and boots.

Manufacturers say they will continue to keep rescue personnel up to date on their hybrids. But they also contend that hybrids can be seen as safer than regular cars.

"Everybody's concerned about the electrical side, but could you imagine if we tried to bring gasoline out today as a motor fuel?" Peterson said.

---

On the Net:

Mid-Del Technology's training center: http://www.evtraining.com/

Honda Insight: http://www.insightcentral.net/

Toyota Prius: http://www.toyota.com/prius/

--



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TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: enivorwacks; hybirdcars
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1 posted on 05/04/2004 12:03:11 PM PDT by The South Texan
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To: The South Texan
Dilemna. Which poses the greater risk--the gas-guzzling SUV crushers or the hybrid electocuters? What to do, what to do?
2 posted on 05/04/2004 12:10:25 PM PDT by babaloo
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To: The South Texan
Wow, this is a good point.

Not that it should stop (legit, unhindered) work on alternative energy power.
3 posted on 05/04/2004 12:26:21 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common Sense is an Uncommon Virtue)
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To: The South Texan
"carries as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery"

Voltage is not a measure of electrical strength.

4 posted on 05/04/2004 12:28:07 PM PDT by laotzu
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To: The South Texan
"It's enough to kill you from what they're telling us in training."

500 volts is more than enough.

5 posted on 05/04/2004 12:30:31 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: laotzu
Do you have any idea of the wattage?
6 posted on 05/04/2004 12:31:46 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( If everything appears to be going well, you obviously don't know what the hell is going on.)
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To: laotzu
Even at relatively low current, that's nasty. I got on the wrong side of a 300V drycell in the lab, and it got my attention.
7 posted on 05/04/2004 12:33:33 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (From each according to his inability, to each according to his misdeeds - DNC Motto)
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To: The South Texan
In addition to the problems with safely extracting victims from these vehicles in a car crash, there is also the safety and environmental hazards posed by the batteries themselves. If these batteries are ripped open what type of toxic materials might be unleashed? If they are typical lead acid batteries there would be enough sulfuric acid to pose a serious danger to both rescuers, victims and the environment. Other battery materials such as lithium are toxic, water reactive and could also pose an environmental danger.

What about safely disposing of these vehicles when they are beyond their useful life? or the battery packs when they have to eventually be replaced? Would the high voltages used in these vehicles possibly generate ozone and if millions of these vehicles were on the road result in a new source of air pollution?

Besides being impractical for a majority of typical auto users, these hybrids may pose an even greater danger than the gas guzzlers and SUVs they hope to replace.

8 posted on 05/04/2004 12:34:36 PM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: laotzu
Watt do you mean? The statement was AMPle. ;)
9 posted on 05/04/2004 12:35:17 PM PDT by flying Elvis
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To: laotzu
Voltage is not a measure of electrical strength

"It's the volts that jolts, but the mils that kills."

Words to live by. We need to know the amperage.

10 posted on 05/04/2004 12:35:52 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: The South Texan
First thing the firemen do, after putting out the car fire, is disconnect the battery. They will learn how to disconnect the motor BATTERY as well.
11 posted on 05/04/2004 12:38:58 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: The South Texan
Its been a long time since high school physics, but I recall that amps kill, not volts. Stun guns have thousands of volts but only a minute amount of amperage and just, well, stun you. In rare cases forty volts, with sufficient amps, has been known to kill.
12 posted on 05/04/2004 12:40:19 PM PDT by Pilsner
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To: babaloo
Ahhhh, who cares. As long as some gas is saved and the "earth doesn't explode" or whatever the going scare-tactic theory is, what's a few hundred lives of rescue workers each year. They're expendable.
13 posted on 05/04/2004 12:40:54 PM PDT by Dick Grayson
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To: The Great RJ
Besides being impractical for a majority of typical auto users

Beg to differ. I have a Honda Civic Hybrid and use it every day for typical activities. I am averaging 40mpg and get ~450 miles to a tank (12.3 gal) of gas. Moves out in everyday traffic just fine, but a bit underpowered for passing on some two lane roads.

Batteries are sandwiched in between the trunk and the rear seat back. NiMH batteries. 144 volts, 6 Ah

Honda Civic Hybrid

14 posted on 05/04/2004 12:45:13 PM PDT by Vermonter
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To: The Great RJ
What happens if I drive one of these things into high water?
15 posted on 05/04/2004 12:46:21 PM PDT by nomorelurker (wetraginhell)
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To: laotzu
"carries as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery"

Voltage is not a measure of electrical strength.


Don't you love it when journalists try to write about technology?

What do you suppose he would say if he leaerd how "strong" the voltage is in the ignition coil of most cars?
16 posted on 05/04/2004 12:46:55 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: The Great RJ
If they are typical lead acid batteries there would be enough sulfuric acid to pose a serious danger to both rescuers, victims and the environment. Other battery materials such as lithium are toxic, water reactive and could also pose an environmental danger.

It's Ni-MH in the Hondas.

17 posted on 05/04/2004 12:51:02 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: The Great RJ
When you get an oil change do you let it run on the ground, or do you dispose of it properly?


minor adjustments...
18 posted on 05/04/2004 12:52:39 PM PDT by sonofron
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To: Dog Gone
144 volts, 6 amps DC (not as bad as AC at least) in the Honda. Still enough to mess up your day.
19 posted on 05/04/2004 1:00:08 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Dog Gone
500 volts is more than enough.

Usually. But if the current flow is very low, 500 volts is very survivable. Current kills quicker than voltage.

20 posted on 05/04/2004 1:02:15 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,Election '04...It's going to be a bumpy ride,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø)
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