Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

[cvq3842]

I don't have an article to post, just some thoughts I have to get off my chest.

Any humiliation or abuse of war prisoners by US troops is a very serious matter, which needs to be investigated fully. That investigation is taking place. These few soldiers have, in my opinion, insulted the United States and especially their fellow soldiers who put their lives on the line for all of us. I can't see any excuse, and I hope those responsible receive the maximum punishment. The whole matter sickens me.

That's all a given.

But I want to ask about the coverage of this event. Remember a few years ago - I know many seem to have forgotten, but a few of you might still remember - when some Islamist extremists incinerated about 3,000 of our fellow citizens? (sarcasm off now) The "mainstream media" repeatedly emphasized that, in effect, "a few bad apples" didn't taint all Arabs and Moslems as fanatical, hateful terrorists. Fair enough, and bravo for that, I say.

Let me ask, though - are we hearing the same emphasis now, about these few miscreants as opposed to our forces at large? I sure hope so.

It's called putting things in perspective, media people.

Just a thought.

PS Isn't Kerry a self-confessed "war criminal"? I couldn't resist mentioning that, again.

[Robert357]

It's called putting things in perspective, media people.

My thought is that this is exactly about the media "putting things in perspective."

Why is this such a large story? Why are some of the major news anchors going into such depth on it? Why has Kerry now come in on it?

Previously the democrats in our polarized society had bought into the argument that you needed to support the troops, even if you opposed the war for partisan purposes. The dem's understood that the people of this country were behind the troops and that in thier search for a political issue, they dare not do anything that disparages the troops.

OK, now the Dem's have a partisan issue that allows them to villify the military (or at least parts of it) and attack the actions of the President.

Want to guess why the "main stream media" is playing this so big? Could it have to do with the media's hope to empower a faultering Democratic Party?

In war, there will always be bad things that happen. It is what the media focuses on and the politicians focus on that shapes public opinion. There is a culture war being fought as to who will control this country and some feel that any means justify the end. This story isn't about Iraq, it is about trying to capture votes in November. (/sarcasm)

OK, I've gotten my rant off my chest. Thank you.

[mywholebodyisaweapon]

This matter sickens me, too. I find the torturing of prisoners abhorrent. But necessary.

We have forgotten just how evil these I&*(E)_)@ are. It reminds me of the proper British response to the Nazis in WWII. One of the reasons why Montgomery wasn't nearly so effective as Patton is that he played by cricket rules. The Nazis regarded Monty with contempt, but Patton with fear.

Slow torture over about 20 years is the only appropriate punishment we can mete out for terrorists or those who aid them. They don't fear death, but they do fear being led around naked on leashes by American women.

Is it going to take some Al Quaida cell's detonating a dirty nuke on our soil before we allow our troops to get really tough with these pitiful excuses for human beings?

[genefromjersey]

Unfortunately,the Media now his its equivalent of May Lai: essentially, a means of getting at President Bush by going after our service people.

I grew up in the WWII era, and cannot remotely imagine anyone from that era going after US troops,or criticizing conditions in US prison camps. The reporter who tried it would have been fired on the spot,and blackballed for the rest of his life...which would probably have been short and brutish.

The name of today's game seems to be "Moral Equivalence",and the rules are simple: You try show that your own country is morally no better ( or perhaps worse)than that of the enemy.This fits in with the "Progressive" perception that "nationalism" -the love of one's own nation- is in and of itself "immoral"; and that our "only salvation" is to shift our loyalty to an all-powerful "super state" : a greatly expanded and reinforced United Nations.

The Progressives are not overly bashful about promoting this idea,and one of the reasons they hate Bush is his inclination to have as little to do with the UN as possible. (They also hate him because he's from Texas,and he's Republican,and because he's not part of their elitist clique.)

Progressives also despise our troops-no matter how piously they declaim their affection for them.Because of 9/11, they have had to suppress that hatred;but now they are starting to slither out from under their rocks again,and it will soon be "open season".

[Robe]

I wish everyone would stop using quoting the Geneva Convention , these guys ARE NOT COVERED BY IT. Have a look here.

http://www.genevaconventions.org/ Alpha Index to Geneva Convention

They are not prisoners of war as they belong to NO army, they belong to NO organized resistance group, they are NOT even considered guerrillas, at best they are spies and saboteurs, and can be treated any way the prior regime could
( IE:you can't have a death Penalty if the ousted/defeated government didn't have one)
I don't wanna hear this "We are better than them stuff"
During the Normandy invasion in WWII the Allied paratroopers took no prisoners,as they had no provisions for detaining them, they were shot and left behind.
Care to depict them as WAR CRIMINALS?
I don't give a rats a$$ what happens to these scum. The pictures should not have been published and give grave comfort to the enemy.
The POS journalist who ran with this should be shot for treason.
We need the president not to apologize but to say these scum are lucky we didn't summary execute them in the field !!
Give the guards a cookie.
Have you forgotten ???
/rant off

[Not a 60s Hippy]

Just my thoughts.

I don’t think these pictures could be as revolting as pictures of a Saturday night “GAY” party in San Francisco. Maybe the military should check out the “Don’t ask – Don’t tell” program a little more. The Democrats should be careful, they might shed some bad light on a portion of their “voting block”.

[oyez]

I saw charred American bodies hanging on a bridge the other day. The so called torture stories mean nothing to me.

[cvq3842]

I agree that, yes, it might take another attack before people some people wake up. I hope to God it never happens, but I fear it will. I hope I'm wrong.

[Gator113]

"It's called putting things in perspective, media people. "

Well, from my perspective, the Libs and the so called "main stream media" have evolved into much more than an information source and an ideology.....they are the true enemy! It will not be the Terrorists that bring our Nation to it's knees, it will be the shameless Libs, Democrat Party leaders and the Media.

[aruanan]

Any humiliation or abuse of war prisoners by US troops is a very serious matter, which needs to be investigated fully. That investigation is taking place. These few soldiers have, in my opinion, insulted the United States and especially their fellow soldiers who put their lives on the line for all of us. I can't see any excuse, and I hope those responsible receive the maximum punishment. The whole matter sickens me.

I wonder whether these prisoners, if given the choice, wouldn't rather take being a member of a naked pyramid over being fed feet first into a wood chipper.

[cvq3842]

I agree with much of what you have said. The media is acting in ways that are STILL inconceivable to me, although it's been going on for 30 years. And it DOES sound like Kerry's 1971 "US bashing" is coming back in style, even though he's straddling the fence on that now, too. The Democrats keep losing because, in short, they vacillate between the socialist/internationalist message, which America continually rejects, and clumsy attempts to hide their true philosophy behind some "New Democrat" type facade, which comes off as insincere and opportunistic.

As for media hatred of Bush, you're right on point, but you forgot to mention that he's religious also. This drives them insane.

Sad.

[snooker]

Where are those photos of the Iraqis slicing themselves and their children with swords, marching around all covered in blood, when you need them.

Would make a good first post for these abuse stories. The media is trying their best to manufacture a hysteria.

[Psalm 73]

Check out the article in NRO today along similar lines.
The rampant spread of the American pornography and world sex trade industries - (ah, yet another Klinton legacy).

[cvq3842]

Good point about the WWII veterans - I have known veterans who told me the same thing.

People growing up fat and happy in the modern USA have no conception of how brutal life can be.

[JmyBryan]

The most horrible part of the pictures is that they exist at all. Of course the behavior is abhorrent, but the seeming delight of sharing the photographs with others not directly involved lends to the Islamist conception that the Western invaders are inherently decadent or evil.

[cvq3842]

I understand your point. But who was the idiot with the camera? These soldiers certainly handed Bush & co. a headache they didn't need. I too am disgusted with CBS, etc., for publishing this, but they've said the photos would have come out anyway. Certainly our "allies" the French, still smarting over their loss of Saddam's largesse, gleefully printed them all, I'm sure.

And i do worry that now Bush, etc. run the risk of being TOO apologetic. Our enemies will now smell weakness and lack of resolve, rather than fear us, if we, for lack of a better term, "overdo it" on the contrition. I'm not expressing myself properly, but I sure as hell would rather our enemies fear us than like us. We will always be enemies to some - we can't make them like us, even if we wanted to. We can only affect whether they view us as weak or strong, willing to fight or not. I know.

[Robert357]

The so called torture stories mean nothing to me.

The pictures will not change my mind that our troops in Afganistan and Iraq are right in being there and that anything they do there to supress and kill the enemy is just fine.

I also feel that having tanks and troops on the ground in the Mid East is an important aspect in forcing the Saudi's to clean up their house, as well as making sure that Iran keeps on its good behavior.

I was at ground zero in NYC two months after 9/11. I started the morning by going to Saint Pat's church for the services and listed to them morn their dead. I then went down to ground zero on vetrans day and saw the destruction, the smoke from the fires still burning.

After that, any thing our military does to get those aligned with (even if indirectly) with the folks responsible for 9/11 is fine with me. I will support our military doing just about anything to those that oppose them and our efforts to go after those who plant or assisted Osama

[ezo4]

[cvq3842]

Understood.

[oyez]

What can I say to top that?