Army could have bought more armored Humvees

May 7, 2004 | Ted Evanoff

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Brigade quietly makes a difference

About 4,500 soldiers from the Clinton-based 30th Heavy Separate Brigade (Mechanized) are spread across an area the size of New Hampshire in Iraq's Diyala province, near the border with Iran.

"There are no tanks here," Williams said. "It has nothing relating to what our previous jobs were."

[PsyOp]

It is not above and beyond the call of duty to ride in an unarmored vehicle, and if we let that notion take hold we can't fight wars anymore. I think that is what some people have in mind.

You may be missing the point with this statement. The problem as I see it is that our Army was (and still largely is), designed to fight a manuever war, not an urban war. Our unit TOE's reflect this.

Under the old doctrine, un-armored vehicles would not be sent into the high-threat kind of environment they are being used for now. Also under the old doctrine, any built up area that was posing this kind of threat would be reduce by fire and bombardment to allow un-fettered access by un-armored convoys and support troops.

In Iraq, we are having to develop a new warfighting doctrine on the fly. Un-armored vehicles are being sent into high-threat environment they were never meant for, and we do not have the proper equipment.

Just look at the large number of armored car type vehicles that are being produced around the world. Why? Because other countries that have had to fight the kind of conflict we are in now have already learned what we are just figuring out. In built up areas infested by guerilla fighters, sending troops around in unarmored vehicles is putting them in shooting gallery.

Doing so, when there are alternatives that can increase (not garantee), their chances of survival is wrong. That is the point.

Would up-armored humvees have prevented all the casualties suffered? No. But it would have prevented some and mitigated others. Someone now dead might have simply lost a limb and kept their life. Someone who lost a limb might have walked away with lesser injuries.

If it's available, and the troops want them, we should damn well do everything to supply them.

Even if they are not as effective as some say and others would wish, it is worth it if the only protection is peace of mind.

But's that's just my humble opinion. And that of a soldier I know who's attended one too many brigade memorial services in Bhagdad.

[lepton]

I doubt they foresaw the media push for a 100% invulnerable military force - one in which only the enemy would be killed or wounded and all American Forces would ride in air-conditioned comfort.

Of course if they were, then the media would argue about how unfair the death rate is, like they do with Israel, or recently did with Thailand.

[Thunder 6]

The good old days...boy I miss the Russians. At least they were an honorable adversary.

We'll see what my MTOE ends up looking like a month from now...
regards,

[R. Scott]

Of course if they were, then the media would argue about how unfair the death rate is, like they do with Israel, or recently did with Thailand.

Don’t forget the hell they raised when our forces shot up the Iraqis leaving Kuwait loaded down with stolen loot.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Also on Saturday, Spc. James Holmes, 29, of East Grand Forks, Minn., died from wounds he received in a bomb blast May 3.

Holmes was driving a armored Humvee when a bomb exploded, sending shrapnel through the vehicle's floor, Haugen said.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Around the clock, seven days a week, O'Gara-Hess & Eisenhardt churns out heavily armored Humvees, designed for the guerrilla combat and roadside bombs bedeviling U.S. troops. Last August, a back-lot warehouse held excess inventory. Now, after a $1.5 million investment, 30 new workers on two shifts produce 500 sets of three-inch-thick bulletproof glass a week. As many as 10,000 sets are on back order.

In November, the company snapped up a 40,000-square-foot building down the road, moved its entire commercial armoring operation there and in three days, with an additional $1.5 million, it doubled the Humvee operation.

In six months, employment has more than tripled, to over 600, and 250 more people in this part of southwestern Ohio work as direct suppliers. Production manager Ronnie Carson figured he interviews 15 job applicants every day and hires 10 to 12 of them. Just this week, the company's parent corporation, Armor Holdings Inc., announced it received an additional $16.6 million from the Army to ramp up production yet again. The clocks setting the pace on the assembly line were reset, from one vehicle every hour and a half to one every hour and 15 minutes.

"For us, the economy is great," said Allen, senior vice president and general manager of Armor Holdings Inc.'s Mobile Security Division.

[Spirited]

Thank you, Sir.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

I agree.

archy's very much needed on this forum, and in this war - on our side.

Whatever the reason, and I suspect I know, we all say things in the heat of battle, and discovering that private messages via Freepmail are not private...a wilfull act by another, spying on mail.. is rather a larger breech of ethics than anything simply said by a disappointed FRiend, imho.

We all make mistakes, and overreact.

Even Admin Mods....and we all need forgiveness, and we need our strongest allies - especially fighting this enemy, this election year.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Ditto what Ragtime Cowgirl said.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

FREE ARCHY!

[Darksheare]

What's going on?
I can see archy's profile, what happened?

[FreedomPoster]

Yes, the account has been re-activated for a couple of weeks, but Archy hasn't posted since the suspension.

[Darksheare]

OKers.
Anyone have his e-addy to see if he's going to come back for the military articles?

[jackbill]

Can you imagine what WWII would have been like with 24/7 coverage and 24/7 second guessing on cable TV channels, talk radio, all news radio, etc., etc.?

After Pearl Harbor and Wake Island, how many members of American media would have been calling for surrender?

How many body bags from Guadalcanal and Tarawa would we have seen, and how would they have affected the American public?

Would we ever gotten to Iwo Jima and Okinawa?

Would the national media called for us to take the troops off of Omaha beach? How would we have seen the Battle of the Bulge?

God, it makes me sick.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

I don't have an email address for him. He might not be able to email for awhile.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

For others who may not have known, archy was hurt.

Please pray.

Forgive my accusations, Admin Moderator.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Prayers for Archy.

[FreedomPoster]

That link isn't good. Is there more info? Thanks.

[FreedomPoster]

OIC, now. The link to a post reply screen threw me.