THE GHOUL NEXT DOOR WAS JAIL ABUSE FOTOG

New York Post ^ | 5/09/04 | ALY SUJO

[kattracks]

The shocking photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners that rocked the world were snapped by a former pizza-house manager who grew up exposed to gruesome pictures of dead people, according to a published report.

Spc. Sabrina Harman, 26, an MP at the infamous Abu Ghraib prison, has been accused by the Army of taking pictures of a nude human pyramid.

[Anti-Bubba182]

"..The young soldier's family said she's always had a fascination with stomach-churning photography.

Growing up, her homicide detective dad and forensic science buff mom constantly shared with their daughter grisly crime-scene photos.

"She has been looking at autopsies and crime-scene pictures since she was a kid," Robin Harmon told the paper.

She said her daughter claims she took the photos at Abu Ghraib as evidence of the atrocities being committed there. .."

Sounds contradictory to the bold if she was fascinated by, "stomach-churning photography".

[Madstrider]

Before being called into active duty, Sabrina was an assistant manager at a Papa John's Pizza.

Right. It figures. Troops named "Sabrina" undermining national security by abusing prisoners (and photographing the abuse) are obviously top-drawer types. This scandal just keeps getting more and more absurd.

[Leroy S. Mort]

She said her daughter claims she took the photos at Abu Ghraib as evidence of the atrocities being committed there.

Among hundreds of digital pictures passed around Sabrina's MP unit, one shows a smiling Harmon crouching slightly, a thumb up, and leaning toward a blackened, decaying corpse with long fingers and a gaping mouth. The photo was taken at a makeshift combat morgue, her family said.

Bit of a disconnect there............

[bikerman]

Another poor me it wasnt my fault blame someone else I wasnt trained,its my parents fault,Keep the women out of the service.Wonder how much this book deal is going to be worth?

[kattracks]

Sounds contradictory to the bold if she was fascinated by, "stomach-churning photography".

Yes, it does. It also makes one wonder, since these photgraphs made their way to the media, if the motives beind taking them had less to do with "exposing atrocities", and more to do with monetary gain.

These people in he military who are claiming to only be following "orders' seem to have had no aversion to gleefully posing for the camera.

[HankIngram]

Another woman. More irony considering the way Muslims treat their women.

[Anti-Bubba182]

"Bit of a disconnect there............"

Several that I see, but we Freepers are used to a Clintonian Quality of BS. The girl doesn't have the practice or inate ability.

[zarf]

I can see it now:

Sabrina will be the hero of the Goth set...hosting the new Saturday morning "Creature Feature" then moving up to be host of ABC's new forensic series "Quincy's Daughter, Medical Examiner".

She will be rich girl.

[auggy]

What can I say?

It's our first digital war.

[csvset]

Growing up, her homicide detective dad and forensic science buff mom constantly shared with their daughter grisly crime-scene photos.

"She has been looking at autopsies and crime-scene pictures since she was a kid," "She has no clue what people are really like. She thinks everyone is good."

Mom certainly has a disconnect in her story.

How could you view photos of "grisly crime-scene photos" and yet "think eveyone is good" ? I'm not buying it Ma.

[zarf]

After seeing the way "liberated" American women are behaving....like testosterone laden teens...is it any wonder the Arab world wants nothing to do with our culture?

I would think there's a nice feminine middle ground between dykes on bikes and burka wearing slaves.

[dennisw]

Any photos of this "torture" babe?

[Anti-Bubba182]

Possibly, but probably it has more to do with her fascination
with that kind of image and later when the investigation was
going bad for the perps, the images were released by those
acting on behalf of Sergeant Frederick to 60 Minutes II for
the purpose of spreading the blame so that they individually
don't look so bad, were following orders, etc.

[Madame Dufarge]

"They're passing the buck, putting it all on the little kids," she said

You don't put unqualified kids in that situation."

"She just moved out [of the house] two years ago," Robin said. "She has no clue what people are really like. She thinks everyone is good."

Maybe it's me, but I don't think of a 26-year old woman as a "little kid."

And what's going on with parents who apparently want their offspring to remain a child forever, yet see nothing wrong with showing their daughter grisly crime scene photos was she really was a little kid?

This is very bizarre.

[.cnI redruM]

Wonderful, the WOT has been turned into some sick, loser pervert's own personal Blair Witch Project.

[Greenpees]

Scapegoat:

What one calls themselves, or thier loved ones, when they refuse to take responsibility for thier own actions.

Yep, she is just a "kid" that wanted to "save the world", but that bad ol' Bush turned her into a creep. BS! She was in no way a victim of anything.

Guess what Mommy, your kid just made 130,000 good, patriotic, soldiers look like undisciplined punks to a world that was just learning that our troops are devestatingly consumate professionals. They were to be respected, if not feared for thier skill and undaunted courage. A far cry from Osama bin Laden's description of us in '96.

Those proud soldiers now have to gain back everything your kid lost for us by playing to a controversy fed media. They'll do it, of course, but no thanks to you. Now, to add insult to injury, your gonna sit there and shift the responsibility onto someone else. It didn't look to me that she was "saving" anything, but having fun at the expense of her nation's reputation.

Stupid camera.

[Quilla]

I agree with many of the comments describing elememts of this story as contradictory and disconnected. I know you peruse The New York Post regularly, do you recall posting articles in the past by Aly Sujo? To have discovered who took many of these photos is an incredible journalistic find, but the story just doesn't read like the The Post.

[melsec]

If what her parents are saying is true then it ought to be beared out by her emails. If not that put her jail.

There are always some people in any conflict who will do this to prisoners. It happened in WWII as well as Nam. People were not stupid enough on the whole to take pictures of it and they didn't have the capacity to shoot video footage. A friends Father fought with the British Army in WWII. I think he said he was with the Black Watch. Anyway they used to do covert opps, etc - you know behind any lines stuff. During one mission they got into a firefight with a small patrol of Germans. The Germans surrendered to them. You know as well as I that covert opps do not have the capacity to take prisoners and also they could not be discovered unitl after their mission was complete. They were all hearded of to a nearby cliff and machine gunned.

Now this might not be in the Spirit of the Geneva Convention.

Sometimes in war stuff happens not good stuff nor even legal stuff just don't point a camera at it!!!

[visualops]

Isn't the giving and witholding of priviledges a tried and true method to coerce cooperation without harming someone? Why is there a problem with denying a prisoner cigarettes? Sleep deprivation is another very effective method that does no long term harm. Just how are we supposed to interrogate, by saying "pretty please tell us what you know"? I am not condoning sexual abuse or other disgusting acts. But, to throw the baby out with the bathwater is stupid.

[kattracks]

Yes, there's a photo with this article, but it's credited to the Washington Post.

[Anti-Bubba182]

LINK

[Miss Marple]

I am glad I read down through the thread, or I would have posted the same two quotes! The mother is just blathering.

I don't buy the evidence reason for the photos. Those were not surreptitious photos taken when guards were unaware. They were posed, and the guards were mugging for the camera.

My big question is the involvement of MI in this, especially since some were unvetted civiliian contractors. The one scenario that makes sense to me is if some of the photos were posed at the direction of MI to use as tools to threaten other prisoners. In other words, "Look here Abdul, either give us the information or we will send you to the wing where women treat Iraqi men this way."

As I understanad the Geneva Convention this also would be wrong, but at least it would make more sense than MP's simply posing with naked guys for souvenir photos.

Then, of course, we have the civilian contractor who left the prison in February and is now blabbing all sorts of stuff to the Guardian in Britain. An obvious liberal (Dean supporter) I am wondering why he was even in that specialty. Was the point of the photos for interrogation, or was the point of the photos to get some evidence proving the US is evil?

There are a great many questions yet to be answered.

[MagnoliaB]

What a bunch of hooey from these parents! Appears to me thier daughter was part of "causing atrocities" not "exposing atrocities". Why would parents expose their kids to homicide pictures? That just sounds sick to me. Well ma look what I have for you on Mother's Day!

[R. Scott]

Don't forget "Robin said her daughter would never hurt anyone."
With her family background, it was probably just business as usual.

[Anti-Bubba182]

The DOD authorized methods that go beyond privileges and sleep.

Pentagon okayed tough questioning methods

What went on here went far beyond that.

[longjack]

PUBLICITY STUNT? An undated family handout photo obtained by the "Washington Post" showing Army Specialist Sabrina D. Harman with a young Iraqi boy in Al Hillah, Iraq. Sabrina is among those charged with abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. - AFP

This is from the "Times of Oman", with the included picture tile credited to AFP.

longjack

[AmericaUnited]

Sabrina the Witch

[Anti-Bubba182]

".. My big question is the involvement of MI in this.."

That and how high in the chain of command this goes are the questions.

[dennisw]

Many thanks for the photos of this Sabrina.

[spetznaz]

Several that I see, but we Freepers are used to a Clintonian Quality of BS. The girl doesn't have the practice or inate ability.

That's true ....BS has to be of a certain pedigree and potency to make even a slight rustle on FR, and this 'lady' does not have it. Her BS is the usual run-of-the-mill watered-down atrophied kind.

Clinton on the other hand was the master of slime and obfuscation ....which i think is starting to be noticed now by comparing him to Kerry. They are both slime ....with the difference being that Clinton's slime was by far more vile, and he could sling it with extreme dexterity. Kerry is a rank amateur compared to him.

Poor Dems ....not only are they still stuck with slime, but moreover this time over they are stuck with totally useless slime.

Addendum: I know this thread is about something totally different, but I couldn't stop myself. LOL (sorry).

[Terp]

An Army investigation into abuses at Abu Ghraib showed that discipline had disintegrated among bitter MPs. The report said the soldiers felt overwhelmed, and that they were angry at the military's broken promises that they would be going home.

A report written by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba said angry, gun-toting reservists in civilian clothes ruled the prison, and that life at the infamous torture center was punctuated by riots and the shooting of inmates.

OK reading between the lines. These reservists are pissed because they were called up for active duty. Of course they never expected it, that’s why most join the reserves in the first place. With that expectation.

So they act like spoiled little kids with the power of life and death in their hands. And it appears from what I’ve heard is coming out that some may have committed murder.

And now it’s wah wah wahhhhhhhh. It’s not our fault, it’s the Chain of Commands fault.

Now I know that some higher ups are at fault but these punks are starting to make me feel like I want to puke.

[tkathy]

Women need to be kept out of male prisons worldwide. Period. Especially young naive women.

[dsc]

"I would think there's a nice feminine middle ground between dykes on bikes and burka wearing slaves."

Sure. It's called June Cleaver. Or maybe Harriet Nelson.

[dsc]

One thing nobody seems to be saying:

The major general and the brigadier general were women.

The subject of this thread was a woman.

Twenty years ago when this "women in the military" crapola was picking up steam, guys like me predicted this kind of crap.

Now it's happened, and nobody is drawing the obvious conclusion.

Women are constitutionally incapable of comprehending the warrior ethos, much less developing it.

What's the name of that book? "I Am a Soldier Too?"

Road apples. Women in uniform are not soldiers, and can never be soldiers, no matter how hard you click your ruby slippers together and wish.

[Caipirabob]

Sadly, I'm not so upset for her doing whatever she did to the prisoners in Iraq. I'm more angry that she embarassed our nation. I'd settle for a court martial (or military tribunal) over the photos and permit the prisoners to "sue her" for damages in court (and limit it to that.) I'd hang her for how she embarassed the entire nation, the filthy pervert...

As far as the prisoners, the photo thing pales to what the prisoners themselves most likely inflicted upon their fellow men under Saddam. Anyone remember the "shredders"? The activities that took place with the photos were more like some badly written script pathetic soft-core pron flic.

I think of the guys being put in the shredders. I think about our poor people at the top of the WTC on September 11th. I think of the photos of prison-twister. So what if the prison was run like a YMCA day camp gone out of control?

[dsc]

"Now I know that some higher ups are at fault but these punks are starting to make me feel like I want to puke."

After WWII Milgram did some research on how the Germans could have turned into such monsters. His unhappy conclusion: practically anybody will, if somebody in a lab coat carrying a clipboard tells them to.

http://designweb.otago.ac.nz/grant/psyc/OBEDIANCE.HTML

Neither the (woman) major general nor the (woman) brigadier general were providing proper leadership. Despite this, some units which had proper commanding officers (which is to say, commanding officers who had a pair) performed properly.

In a chaotic leadership vacuum, two civilians with all the romantic halo of the spook asked some lower-ranking military members to help them by softening up the prisoners. The snuffys had neither training nor clear orders nor hands-on supervision to guide them.

While their conduct was utterly shameful and unacceptable, it is hardly incomprehensible.

If our government were run according to the dictates of right reason, one of the consequences of this incident would be the abrupt termination of this "women in the military" insanity.

[Da Mav]

Entirely too much breast beating on what we have seen to date. I'll reserve judgement on what is yet to come.

Let's get the focus back to killing terrorist Jihadi and stop wallowing in our own shortcomings. The matter will be investigated, where laws were broken people will be punished, corrective actions will be taken. This will not win the war. Killing the bad guys will win the war.

[Savage Beast]

The abuse of prisoners was obviously the result of deviants who slipped through the cracks and not U.S. policy. The President has apologized. Those responsible will be dealt with according to law. The Democrats and their supporters in the Newsmedia will seek to exploit it for political purposes--as they would anything. America's enemies--at home and abroad--will use it as ammunition against the U.S. if they can.

What's scary is this:

There will always be deviants and sickos in every population, and it is impossible to prevent them from gaining power over other people. When they do, they will abuse them.

This is true of prison guards. It is also true of politicians.

Some of the most merciless, sadistic, cruel, exploitive, and inhuman sickos I have ever seen have been "environmentalists" and those empowered by enormously rich "environmentalist charities". I shudder to imagine what some of these people would do if they had defenseless prisoners at their mercy.

Another thing that is disturbing is the corrupting effect of power and the fact that prison guards have significant power over prisoners. It is an easy thing, it seems, for a guard to slide down the slippery slope from control to discipline to abuse--from necessary control to stripping prisoners to forcing them to commit sex acts to beating them to torturing them to... You get the picture.

Someone who is not a sicko can be corrupted by power.

And, to paraphrase Joseph Conrad--we never know what's in our own heart of darkness until we are tested.

[Kozak]

Harman, an Army reservist from Alexandria, Va., is also accused of photographing a corpse and then posing for a picture with it, as well as jumping on prisoners as they lay in a pile and writing "rapeist" on one detainee's leg. Army documents say Harman also attached wires to a prisoner's hands while he stood on a box with his head covered, then told the prisoner he would be electrocuted if he fell off.

Yeah but now this sadistic little POS is playing the hero card, she was just exposing the injustice of it all. she has all the makings of becoming a Hero of the Left of Kerry like stature. Watch for her to run for the Senate as a Democrat.

[ken5050]

"Sabrina Harman"....if it turns out she's Jewish, there's gonna be a world class s**tstorm!

[Bogey78O]

This reminds me of the Tiger Force "scandal".

Part of it had one soldier claim he committed a ton of atrocities in Vietnam and "everyone was doing it."

Everyone else when questioned had no clue what this guy was talking about. None of them were close to the guy and they never saw any atrocities.

These types go out and commit this suff then when caught they figure they can buy their ticket out by threatening to turn it into another My Lai.

[Coroner]

"She will be rich girl"
I hope thats after serving 20 years in the brig for her treasonous activity!!

[LoudRepublicangirl]

I think this is the problem with parents today. No matter what their kids do, they will make excuses instead of making their kid own up to their mistakes. I would think the world would respect my kid more if he/she would admit to the mistake, take the punishment and assist in further investigations on the subject.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

There seem to be quite a few "shes" related to this story. From the General in charge (who wasted know time blaming others) to this woman, to Ms. England who was shown in most of the pictures shown on t.v.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

one shows a smiling Harmon crouching slightly, a thumb up, and leaning toward a blackened, decaying corpse with long fingers and a gaping mouth. The photo was taken at a makeshift combat morgue, her family said.

Yes, she is obviously being made a scape goat. I like how her parents refer to them as little kids. It's amazing what little kids were able to do in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. As usual, her parents are half the problem.

[sharktrager]

"She just moved out [of the house] two years ago," Robin said. "She has no clue what people are really like. She thinks everyone is good."

The girl has been looking at crime scene photos since childhood, but she thinks everyone is good.

Mom, stop lying to cover for your daughter. You're not very good at it.

Oh, and at 26, she's not a "kid".

[rintense]

Since day one, I've been saying there's an S&M aspect to all of this. Seems to be the creeps into this stuff all ended up in the same assignment.

[Indie]

What do you expect from a female turned soldier fast food manager.
Thanks a lot sabrina for screwing your country.

[Flint]

"She said her daughter claims she took the photos at Abu Ghraib as evidence of the atrocities being committed there." "Harman, an Army reservist from Alexandria, Va., is also accused of photographing a corpse and then posing for a picture with it, as well as jumping on prisoners as they lay in a pile and writing "rapeist" on one detainee's leg. " "Robin said her daughter would never hurt anyone. " "As she watched Rumsfeld testify Friday, Robin called her daughter a "scapegoat." Why do I have a problem buying Mom's story?