"Iraq Is Becoming Another Vietnam" by Bob Johnson

Free Republic Network ^ | 5-10-04 | Bob Johnson

[Bob J]

Thanks!

[GmbyMan]

There is a huge difference between Vietnam and Iraq even through the lense you are using. I think that one could make an argument that Vietnam was the wrong war to fight at that time. I happen to believe we should have sent troops to Cuba to depose Castro first. Even with Vietnam falling, we still won the Cold War just 25 years later with the fall of the Soviet Union.

On the other hand, our War on Terror is being fought today more on the streets of Najaf and Fallujah than any place else in the world. We are now engaged in WW IV against four enemies in that part of the world. We are fighting the Dead Ender Iraqis, Al Q'aeda, Syria and Iran all in the same country. The united opposition to the form of Democracy and Freedom that we are trying to bring to that company has brought all the different types of Islamo Fascists together against us.

In a nutshell, if Democracy succeeds in Iraq, we will have turned the corner in the overall war on terror. The fighters in Iraq understand this. It is time for people with degrees from Yale to also understand. At least one does.

[Bob J]

"...we lost the war for one very basic reason and that would be the total lack of resolve to win the war."

Yes, resolve that was chipped away day by day by the American press.

[agincourt1415]

Yes, but this time, the public may tire of the Liberal Press, and may see through what they are trying to do.

A HUGE BACKFIRE is on the HORIZON.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

Good article.

Additionally, wasn't the Viet nam war planned as a "NO WIN" war by the generals?

Also, I do not view the recent treatment of Iraqi's as mere "fraternity pranks." Such treatment was morally reprehensible and I expect better of our military. There are other ways to "break" the enemy. Unfortunately, the soldiers engaged in the behavior have given the left a drum to beat. However, it is NOT a reason to pull out of Iraq and I beleive it was bad conduct that can be attributed to only a few.

[jonrick46]

This effort to create disunity was a recipe card first formulated by Soviet KGB agents who successfully worked the 1960s antiwar effort. Your post tells me you are one of the enlightened conservatives who knows from where the Democratic Party and its allies in the press have copied their strategy. The truth must get out to the American people who do not know anything about the Vietnam War era. The Commie lies had one objective: take all of southeast Asia and eventually Japan for Communism. Millions were disposed of in the Killing Fields.

Ronald Regan was not swayed when they tried to stop the mobile ICBMs being placed in Europe. Bush is of the same metal. Bush will stand firm.

[evad]

Yes, resolve that was chipped away day by day by the American press

Sorry Bob..but that's where we part company.

LBJ and his henchmen never had resolve, therefore it could not be chipped away in their case. This is the whole point of Viet Nam, the whole lesson to be learned.
If you elect (or somehow put into power) gutless, spineless swine like LBJ, you will suffer the consequences in terms of national security. All the more reason that at this time we need four more years of Bush II.

The American populus during the VN era is another story. Your point of resolve being chipped away by a leftist press and traitors and seditionists such as JF'nKerry would certainly apply there.

[leadpenny]

. . . and more importantly, our military was corrupt and could not be trusted to conduct operations in an acceptable manner.

I was hoping you would further support that statement.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Mom, Apple Pie, and the Ghost of Quagmires Past

[tomball]

You are right. There are huge differences between Vietnam and Iraq. The first being that not one single Vietnamese declared a "jihad," nor did they sponsor "jihads" on American soil. Not one single person from Vietnam hijacked our airplanes and flew them into American buildings killing civilians. Of course, this was before Ted Kennedy's 1964-65 renovations of INS policies, which opened the doors for just about anybody to this country for the price of a vote.

Iraq has been sponsoring terrorists since before 1991 when the first Bush was in office. Iraq admittedly had a hand in the first truck bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. Before Clinton quashed media scrutiny of the OKC bombing, middle east terrorists were shown "dancing in the streets" when the OKC building tumbled down. Iraq continued to sponsor Al Qaeda the entire time Bill Clinton was in office. Iraq admittedly displayed their hatred for Americans and America, even though they loved American cash, and what it could buy them. Saddam even hated his own people to the extent where the word "abuse" was not adequate to describe the atrocities he inflicted on them.

Every time I hear someone parrot "Iraq is another Vietnam," I get rather angry. I knew men who were forced to chop their way into Vietnam in order to protect "LBJ's rubber plantations."

One could say that war and politics are one and the same, but the Vietnam War and what we have going on in Iraq have nothing to do with each other. That is, except for the lies being spread by the news media.

[freekitty]

This is total bs.

[Bob J]

The left utilized every atrocity, real or imagined, to convince the American public that the military was engaging in war crimes in Vietnam. Groups like Kerry's VVAW testified to Congress that these activities were usual and normal and the orders came down from senior officers. Culminating in the My Lai massacre and it's subsequent trial, the military was painted as spoiled goods who did not have the moral high ground to continue the war.

This in itself was not a determining factor yet contributed to the overall impatience with and desire of the public to get out of VN.

[Bob J]

Also, I do not view the recent treatment of Iraqi's as mere "fraternity pranks." Such treatment was morally reprehensible and I expect better of our military.

The term "fraternity pranks" has been used quite a bit to describe what happened (at least for the photos we've seen to date) and I think it an apt analogy. Fraternity pranks are generally designed to embarass and humiliate but not to inflict physical pain or injury.

[Bob J]

You're talking about the resolve of the political establishment and I'm talkng about the resolve of the American people. Apples and oranges.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

Any fraternity that forced people to be naked while dogs snarled at them, masturbate in front of other people, while a woman mocked them, pile on top of people naked, and as we know at the time of your posting, sodomizing prisoners with broom handles, having sex in front of them and forcing them to watch (Lyndie England having sex with multiple partners), standing them on top of a chair for hours in a room immersed with water and telling them they will be electrocuted if they fall ARE NOT FRATERNITY PRANKS. Any fraternity doing such things to its members and getting caught would be shut down and its members would face charges for sexual abuse and you know it. There have already been such cases and no one but the guilty parties, saw them as "fraternity pranks."

The above pornographic acts are an absolute disgrace, are not befitting of our soldiers and are an indication of the many things which are wrong with the American culture. They only help to cement the opinion of the militant terrorists that America is the perverse and evil country they believe it to be.

There are other ways to intimidate and break down prisoners of war.

I can understand, that soldiers in a situation where they feel threatened by the enemy might engage in behavior toward the enemy which is wrong the above cases are NOT one of those instances.

And exactly how successful were these methods in achieving the objective?

I am truly appalled by the many conservatives (yourself included) AND Christian conservatives who have rationalionalized this behavior.

[Bob J]

As I stated, the term "fraternity pranks" relates solely to the photos we have seen. There have been allegations of sodomy and sex in front of prisoners, but I haven't seen them yet. The masturbation thing certainly crosses the line, but everything else we've seen was meant to humiliate and embarrass them.

Nobody is rationalizing the behavior, people are trying to keep them in perspective. The left stays silent about islamist's unspeakable atrocities but scream to high heaven over the picture of a dog parking at a prisoner. If you want to maintain some kind of moral equivalence between the two, that's your business. But don't criticize others because they see a grey area between embarrassment and murder.

As for pranks that fraternities commit and who should be prosecuted, you obviously have never been in a fraternity.

[Bob J]

There are other ways to intimidate and break down prisoners of war.

Mind educating us on this statement?

[leadpenny]

I know about My Lai. I was serving with Hugh Thompson when he went to the post Chaplain at Ft. Rucker, AL. I served under General Peers. They were not corrupt. I was not corrupt. Oh, sure, there was corruption in Vietnam. The first Sergeant Major of the Army (Woolridge) and his "Khaki Mafia" were corrupt. Others did things that disgraced themselves and the uniform they wore, but that was the exception and the cost of doing business. I served two tours in Nam and personally do not know anyone who was corrupt. To say, ". . . and more importantly, our military was corrupt and could not be trusted to conduct operations in an acceptable manner." is to dishonor the service of the millions who served honorably in LBJ's War. The statement makes me want to spit. If I had written it, I'd retract it. I'm through talking about it.

[Bob J]

I don't know why you're taking my comment out of context but here is the quote;

The war was lost when the left successfully convinced the American public...our military was corrupt and could not be trusted to conduct operations in an acceptable manner.

I never stated out military was corrupt, I said the left portrayed it that way. I would make one edit to that however, and change "military' to "portions of our military".

If you don't believe the left had a destructive impact on many people's view of our military, during and after the Vietnam war, there's not much to discuss. The negative influence was felt from top down to enlistments, even to ROTC programs.