Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

U.S. Won't Use Air Tankers for Wildfires
The Guardian (U.K.) ^ | May 10, 2004 | IRA DREYFUSS

Posted on 05/10/2004 11:14:43 PM PDT by Stoat

WASHINGTON (AP) - Just as the 2004 wildfire season is opening, the government on Monday grounded an aging fleet of 33 former military tankers that had been among the biggest weapons in its arsenal for fighting the blazes.

The Forest Service and the Interior Department terminated contracts with private companies for use of the planes after the National Transportation Safety Board determined their airworthiness could be not assured. Three such planes crashed between 1994 and 2002, killing seven crew members.

Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth said that, in the wake of the NTSB report, continuing to use the tankers posed ``an unacceptable risk'' to aviators, ground firefighters and communities near the blazes.

The fixed-wing planes, some of them as old as 60 years, had been used primarily in initial attacks on fires and protecting buildings when fires were moving toward urban areas, said Dan Jiron, a spokesman for the Forest Service.

He said the government still has the use of 491 other aircraft, including smaller fixed-wing planes and helicopters. ``It's serious, but we will be able to do our job,'' Jiron said.

The tankers were each capable of dumping from 1,700 to 2,500 gallons of water a minute.

The Forest Service grounded the fleet of tankers it had under contract after two crashes in 2002.

The planes were reactivated after a new inspection program was developed at the Energy Department's Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque, N.M., but the NTSB said in its report last month that maintenance and inspection programs were still inadequate.

``It was apparent that no effective mechanism currently exists to ensure the continuing airworthinesss of these firefighting aircraft,'' the report said.

Complete information on the stresses that the planes endured in firefighting was not available, the report said. Nor was there complete information on maintenance and inspection dating back to the planes' use in the military.

Investigators who reviewed the crashes in California and Colorado in 2002 said the aircrafts' wings could not take the strain. In the California crash involving a C-130A, the wings snapped off and the fuselage plunged to the ground, killing three people on board.

Planes from the now-grounded fleet probably were used to fight a current fire in California, Jiron said. ``We always use what fleet we have available to use,'' he said.

However, the planes were not used on Monday, he said.

Fires also are burning in Montana, Arizona and Minnesota. They are fueled by drought, which has been worsening in many areas in the West, drying pasturelands and leaving forests parched. The National Drought Mitigation Center's Drought Monitor now classifies the West as being in a state of exceptional drought, worse than its initial classification of abnormally dry.

The government will have to shift firefighting tactics with the loss of the 33 planes, Jiron said.

Firefighters will target blazes with helicopters and cropduster-type fixed-wing aircraft, Jiron said. These aircraft can be more accurate than the big planes when they drop their payloads, and they can resupply with water closer to the fire, he said.

The government also can activate eight military C130s equipped to carry water, he said.

``This is a loss, but it is not something we can't address now that the curtain is raising on fire season,'' Jiron said.

To the government, the loss of planes is not an insurmountable problem. Firefighters still should be able to do their inherently dangerous job ``with or without air support,'' it said.

But one aviation officer in the Forest Service, Bill Pierce, called the grounding of the 33 tankers ``a major loss'' that could raise the risks involved with firefighting.

``It's a real hazardous situation, not having the tankers,'' said Pierce of the Humboldt-Toiyabe Forest Service office in Reno, Nev.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: environmentalism; government; supertankers; usforestservice; wildfires
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-87 last
To: JohnA

Hello JohnA,
I just phoned The Denver Channel re their broadcast on the Ilyushin IL-76 on May 14, and apparently the only way that footage is available is if a person were to buy the tape of the entire newscast, which costs US$57.00

Readers interested in ordering the tape need to specify the date and time of the broadcast and send their payment to

VMS
1 Broadway Plaza
Building A, Suite 210
Denver, CO
80203

(303) 861-7163

When I asked the switchboard operator if there were any plans to rebroadcast the program she said "probably not, because it was last week".
When I asked her about obtaining copyright permissions to rebroadcast the program or segments thereof on another medium or hosting it for internet download, she offered to transfer me to Mr. Kovaleski himself, who apparently is in a position to negotiate such matters.
I didn't take her up on speaking with Mr. Kovaleski because I'm not a principal in this matter and am not in a position to cut a deal, but I got the impression that he was indeed accessible for communication directly through the main switchboard of The Denver Channel at

(303) 832-7777

Sorry that I haven't been more help, but perhaps considering that the footage is not likely to be rebroadcast, Mr. Kovaleski might be willing to authorize it's use elsewhere? Given my position as merely an enthusiastic supporter of the IL-76 for use in wildland firefighting, I don't think that I can go much further with this but perhaps you can.


81 posted on 05/17/2004 2:42:54 PM PDT by Stoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: JohnA

Re your link to the Firehouse Magazine article, the link you posted points to a Members area, and person can't go further without subscribing.
I found what appears to be the same article posted in their free area, and the URL is:

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/article/article.jsp?sectionId=4&id=30430

It's titled "747s May Be Next Wildland Firefighting Tools" and here is the complete text of the article:

As the nation's aging and outdated fleet of air tankers faces retirement, a private company is ready to offer a new breed of air tanker technology for wildland firefighting in the U.S. - the Supertanker.

Evergreen International Aviation has built a revolutionary new air tanker from a Boeing 747, creating an aircraft with seven times the drop capability of today’s largest U.S. air tanker and the ability to loiter, or orbit around a fire, for up to six hours, compared to one hour for a traditional air tanker.

"With guidance from appropriate agencies," the company claims, "Evergreen will assist state, federal and worldwide experts redefine how fires are fought and emergency management missions are performed."

Similar technology has been used for wildfire fighting around the world since 1994. Russian "Waterbombers" capable of releasing more than 10,000 gallons in a single drop are available for contract through Global Emergency Response, a government and industry consortium of U.S., Canadian and Russian agencies. The Forest Service's decision not to utilize the Ilyushin-76 despite success in other countries has drawn some controversy.

Forest Service officials could not immediately be reached for comment on whether they will consider the giant U.S. or Russian air tankers in light of devastating recent wildfire seasons and the grounding of the old air tanker fleet. Forest Service and Department of Interior officials have publicly stated that they are trying to develop a strategy to purchase newer aircraft.

"Clearly the days of operating older aircraft of unknown airworthiness for firefighting operations are over," Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth said in a press statement.

Evergreen spokesman Justin Marchand said his company's first Supertanker was flight tested April 24 and they expect it to receive Federal Aviation Administration certification around July 4. Their goal is to have the aircraft fighting wildfire this season and to eventually build a small fleet.

The Evergreen Supertanker can carry up to 24,000 gallons in one load and has the capability of performing segmented drops. It has a fill time of 26 to 30 minutes, compared to up to 25 minutes for a traditional air tanker.

Marchand said Evergreen has been discussing the technology with fire officials but said it is too early to speculate on future contracts or the cost of contracting the aircraft. He made it clear that the program is private and self-funded, not a government project.

They began designing the Supertanker in 2002 after a conversation between Evergreen chairman Del Smith and pilot Cliff Hale, who fought the fires at Los Alamos in 2002. "They discussed the fact that the fire service needs something above and beyond what's out there today to combat these megafires," Marchand said. "Their goal was to give firefighters a better tool."

Marchand said no one else in the industry has created a supertanker from a 747, but he has heard of other U.S. ventures looking at large airframes. According to Evergreen's web site, Boeing has worked with Evergreen to support the engineering studies and certification process.

Marchand said the Supertanker also has many additional benefits, besides its load capacity. Instead of just using gravity to drop liquid, it uses a pressurized system, which allows the aircraft to fight fire from an altitude of 400 to 800 feet, rather than the more dangerous 200 feet for a regular tanker.

According to the company's web site, an aircraft this size will also provide a suitable platform for advanced GPS navigation and forward looking infrared capabilities, which could enhance navigation and possibly lead to night operations.

And even with 24,000 gallons of retardant, the aircraft is still 150,000 pounds below its maximum takeoff weight capacity, the company says, providing an enhanced safety margin. They say current air tankers take off at maximum certified take off weight, leaving no margin for error.

"We just think it has great potential," Marchand said


82 posted on 05/17/2004 2:58:15 PM PDT by Stoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic

We were up in eastern BC last year and were literally shocked to see miles after miles of dead fir and pine. All dead from beatles and drought. That's going to be one hugh fire.


83 posted on 05/17/2004 3:30:15 PM PDT by OregonRancher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

Thanks so much for ferreting out DenverChannel's
commercial data. We'll get a tape in consideration
for our efforts making our data available together
with our spokesperson and a US expert in Russian
aviation.

I would not jump to conclusions about further use
of the material by ABC - or not. An issue
like wildfire suppression does not simply go away,
especially considering that despite the comforting
words of the US Forest Service surrounding the
standing down of 33 air tankers, predictions are
for a worse than normal fire season in many areas.

What they have remaining is half a loaf.

We are generally pleased that Firehouse.com wrote
as they did. We know the true comparison between
these big aircraft in a firefighting role and remain
supremely confident of our competitive position,
especially as regards economy of operation but also
as to handling capabilites, versatility, and overall effectiveness.

The true economics of aerial firefighting is tied up
in a computation of $/pound liquids delivered to a fire.

Cheers, Stoat, and thanks again!


84 posted on 05/17/2004 3:31:55 PM PDT by JohnA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

It would appear, however, that the decision for
the IL-76 this year, at least, is final:

“In keeping with the need to ensure airworthiness of
aircraft, the federal agencies will not be considering
aircraft such as the BE-200, the IL-76 or the A-10 since
they don’t hold current U.S. airworthiness certificates,”

- http://wildfiremag.com/ar/firefighting_feds_ground_large/

- NIFC http://www.nifc.gov/







85 posted on 05/18/2004 5:48:49 AM PDT by JohnA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Stoat

To which DenverChannel responds:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3319268/detail.html


86 posted on 05/18/2004 2:04:24 PM PDT by JohnA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: JohnA

Hello JohnA,
I thought that the Denver Channel link that you posted was very important and newsworthy, and so I started a thread with it here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1138254/posts


87 posted on 05/18/2004 9:50:49 PM PDT by Stoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-87 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson