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New York City Claims Drop in Number of Smokers
VOA News ^ | 12 May 2004

Posted on 05/12/2004 11:27:10 AM PDT by Know your rights

A city-sponsored survey says the number of adult smokers in New York City fell by more than 100,000 between 2002 and 2003. Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden said the drop - which amounts to 11 percent - is the steepest decline of smokers seen anywhere.

Telephone surveys found that 19.3 percent of adults smoked in 2003, down from 21.6 percent in 2002. Overall cigarette consumption declined by 13 percent, suggesting that even those who continue to smoke are now smoking less.

Health officials credit the decline to a 2002 tax increase on cigarettes, which raised the tax from eight cents per pack to $1.50 per pack. A year later, New York City banned smoking in bars, and Mayor Michael Bloomberg began an aggressive anti-smoking campaign, which included programs helping people to quit.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: betterhealth; blesstheirwillpower; goodforthem; greatnews; lesschimneypeople; nomorestench; nyc; pufflist; smoking; theygotsmart
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1 posted on 05/12/2004 11:27:11 AM PDT by Know your rights
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To: *puff_list; SheLion; Gabz; CSM; Conspiracy Guy
Bloominidiot Puff!

Of course smoking in NY City has gone down.
Bloominidiot has run all the smokers out of town with his idiocy.

2 posted on 05/12/2004 11:29:30 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Know your rights
They are just lying. We are wating for the first lynching of a smoker here abouts. I mean really, what would you say?
3 posted on 05/12/2004 11:29:56 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: Know your rights
Yep, they've had to go elsewhere to find jobs since bars and restaurants are closing.
4 posted on 05/12/2004 11:30:21 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Know your rights
It could also be that a whole lot of people are lying when asked if they still smoke. Sales is the better measure of smoking. 'Course, what'll they do when smoking is completely purged from the city? Stop spending or tax something new???
5 posted on 05/12/2004 11:31:26 AM PDT by theDentist (John Kerry for President? BWAHAAAAhahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!)
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To: Know your rights
More likely that more people are evading the higher cigarette tax, and only "official" consumption is lower, blowing the entire premise of the article out of the water.
6 posted on 05/12/2004 11:31:41 AM PDT by thoughtomator (This comment was wise, witty, interesting, and insightful... right up until the moment I hit "Post")
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To: Know your rights
Social engineering using the tax code...
7 posted on 05/12/2004 11:33:41 AM PDT by kdot
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To: Know your rights
... and in related news, organized crime involving cigarettes -- including hijacking and smuggling -- has gone through the roof, as well as robberies of convenience stores for their cigarettes.

Nice to tell a family store owner "You were robbed and your wife shot because we raised cigarette taxes enough to make such robberies worth the risk."
8 posted on 05/12/2004 11:47:01 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Know your rights
I'd like to know if sales of smokes are down, or if people are just lying to the survey.

They might be afraid of Nanny Bloomberg coming to their house.
9 posted on 05/12/2004 11:56:59 AM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: theDentist
Sales is the better measure of smoking

Not in NYC it isn't. The amount of blackmarket buying, out of state buying, and internet buying would make a sales comparrison in NYC useless.

10 posted on 05/12/2004 11:57:27 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: TC Rider
See my post #10.

My In-laws live under the rule of Bloomberg. One thing they do when they travel down here to see us is rent an SUV or minivan. Reason. They stop off at JRs and purchase several HUNDRED cartons of cigarettes for family, friends, and sale.

They also purchase mass quantities over the internet from SWITZERLAND!

11 posted on 05/12/2004 11:59:52 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: Phantom Lord
True, but it'd be a lot more accurate than a phone poll.
12 posted on 05/12/2004 12:02:49 PM PDT by theDentist (John Kerry for President? BWAHAAAAhahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!)
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To: Just another Joe
hahaha... yea, there's just a housing bust in NYC because all the smokers have moved away.... NOT.
13 posted on 05/12/2004 12:02:59 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: theDentist
I don't think either method could be considered anything approaching accurate.
14 posted on 05/12/2004 12:04:28 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: HamiltonJay; Just another Joe
all the smokers have moved away.... NOT.

Not all, but perhaps all of the 100,000 (which wouldn't be enough to produce a "housing bust") and almost certainly a significant percentage of them.

15 posted on 05/12/2004 12:11:01 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights
hahaha, 100k people haven't moved out of NYC because of the smoking ban. People don't MOVE in great numbers because they can't smoke in restraunts.

People move to NYC because of the economic hub that it is... people don't sell and move in large numbers over something as trivial as smoking in restraunts and bars.

You show me one study at all that remotely shows the population of NYC has declined by 100k because of the smoking ban.. with about 8,000,000 people 100k represent about 1.25% of the population of the city! And that's not remotely true that over 1% of the population of the city have moved away over smoking.
16 posted on 05/12/2004 12:19:49 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Phantom Lord
They could at least compare legitimate sales over time.

I do see your point though.

I crack up when I hear our local pols advocating higher cig taxes to stop children from smoking. We too visit NYC regularly and it seems there are always more kids smoking the $7/pack cigs there than the ones smoking the cheap stuff here.
17 posted on 05/12/2004 12:21:06 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: HamiltonJay
I was actually being slightly sarcastic.
You are probably correct in your assertation that large numbers of people probably don't move simply because they can't smoke in bars or reataurants.
Give Bloominidiot another term and then we'll talk again.

I also don't believe that smokers, who have access to other ways of buying cigarettes, quit in the numbers given here.

18 posted on 05/12/2004 12:23:38 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Know your rights
So, if they put the tax there in order to force people to quit, what would they do if most smokers quit? They are already addicted to that tax revenue that is rolling in, I imagine they'd find a new 'sin' to tax.
19 posted on 05/12/2004 12:25:53 PM PDT by Bella_Bru
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To: Know your rights
IMO, it's good that people are smoking less, but that doesn't excuse the taxes or smoking ban.
20 posted on 05/12/2004 12:28:00 PM PDT by Nathaniel Fischer (FairTax Fan)
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To: HamiltonJay
people don't sell and move in large numbers over something as trivial as smoking in restraunts and bars.

Some agree that it's trivial and don't move, others disagree and do move (probably finding the ban to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back).

21 posted on 05/12/2004 12:42:51 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Just another Joe
Sorry - can't respond at the moment...............I'm laughing too hard!!!!!!!!

will get back to you a little later!
22 posted on 05/12/2004 12:47:48 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Know your rights
Again, show me your research that is anything more than your opinion that 1.25% of NYC's population has moved away because of the smoking ban.

ALl you are doing is the same nonsense the left uses... 1 in 4 women raped, 1 in 8 are annorexic etc etc etc... lies with no facts to back them up presented as facts.

23 posted on 05/12/2004 12:56:14 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Just another Joe
Joe,

I would never suggest the black market isn't booming in NYC, hell the black market is booming for everything in NYC, you get 8 Million+ people together, many of which are immigrants and black market everything is there.

Frankly I know Bloomberg isn't very popular among freepers, general concensus I got was the the people I spoke to in NYC were generally pleased with him and base on that personally I suspect he'll get another term easily.

Not what some NYC citizens want to hear, but I'm sure many NYC citizens didn't want to hear the obvious when Rudi was shoe in for reelection either.

24 posted on 05/12/2004 1:00:55 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
your opinion that 1.25% of NYC's population has moved away because of the smoking ban.

I never claimed that. Get a dictionary and look up "perhaps."

25 posted on 05/12/2004 1:15:26 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: CasearianDaoist
We are wating for the first lynching of a smoker here abouts. I mean really, what would you say?

I don't know about lynchings, but it would actually be considered humane compared to what I have seen proposed by anti-smokers to rid the planet of smokers. And some of the suggestions have been proposed for me.

Being thrown off a bridge was about the humanest way of ridding the world of smokers I have seen.

26 posted on 05/12/2004 1:45:20 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: theDentist
Sales is the better measure of smoking

Actually tD, it's not. In fact is really the worst way of measuring smoking.

Following the most recent increases in cigarette taxes in NY and NJ Delaware sales of cigarettes skyrocketted. Smoking in Delaware didn't increase, just the sale of the product.

The antis claim that a drop in sales is proof positive that smokers are quitting in droves yet turn around and run to the nearest jurisdiction with a lower tax to try to convince them to increase the tax.

Increased taxes absolutely and always will lead to less purchase...........less purchase in the higher tax venue does not equate to less use of the overly taxed product.

27 posted on 05/12/2004 1:51:55 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Just another Joe
As a New Yorker, I can tell you it is true.

You are incorrect. Far from deriving people way, the anti-smoking bans have actually increased restaurant attendance and revenues have gone up.

For anyone who has ever had a special dinner at an expensive restaurant ruined by people at the next table blowing smoke in your face, you can understand.

Most NYers like the ban just fine, thgank you very much.
28 posted on 05/12/2004 1:52:04 PM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: Phantom Lord
I truly feel for your in-laws.

I left NYC long before he ever came about and no longer miss the city of my childhood.
29 posted on 05/12/2004 1:54:51 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: HamiltonJay
I agree with you.

Mayor Bloomberg's approval ratings keep rising. He has a very tough law and order and anti-terrorism/national security program, following in the footsteps of his great predecessor, Rudy Guiliani. Hw runs a tight ship. I fully support him as Mayor.

Bloomberg deserves re-election if only for destroying the Board of Education, that bloated entrenched union controlled bureacracy that was responsible for the failure of the NY City school system. He totally supports the end of social promotion and accountability for teachers.
30 posted on 05/12/2004 1:57:34 PM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: Cincinna
the anti-smoking bans have actually increased restaurant attendance and revenues have gone up.

What's your source for this claim?

31 posted on 05/12/2004 1:58:13 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Gabz
I see. Valid points to ponder...

... but I can't give it proper consideration without a Cohiba to accompany my musings.

32 posted on 05/12/2004 1:58:24 PM PDT by theDentist (John Kerry for President? BWAHAAAAhahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!!)
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To: HamiltonJay
They may not be moving out because of the smoking ban..........but they sure as heck are not moving in because of it.

I didn't move out of Delaware because of the smoking ban (done before NY's)but it sure was another added incentive for us to get the heck out of there.

I did not attend my 25th class reunion in NYC specifically because of the the bloominidiot's smoking ban. It could have just as easily been held outside the city (NY state ban had not yet gone into effect at the time).

My family spent the money we would have wasted in NYC in places that are more friendly and open to all types of clientele. In other words, we stayed in Virginia.
33 posted on 05/12/2004 2:03:32 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Cincinna
You are incorrect. Far from deriving people way, the anti-smoking bans have actually increased restaurant attendance and revenues have gone up.

Do you have numbers to back that fact up?
Do not point me to the study that says a 9% increase. That does not take numbers from only bars and restaurants, it uses fast food, takeouts, etc.

34 posted on 05/12/2004 2:12:12 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Cincinna
Most NYers like the ban just fine, thgank you very much.

You and I must talk to different NYer's.

People I grew up with and folks I've known for more than 30 years (that weren't as smart as me to get out of there) tell me horror stories on a daily basis about how much this ban has hurt small businesses.

If there was really and truly such a mandate for smoke-free bars and restaurants these laws would not exist. Because of few well-funded loud mouths the rest of society has to suffer.

I didn't deal with it on a daily personal basis in NYC or NY state the way I did in Delaware, but I do know for a fact that the proponents of the smoker bans are very heavily funded and totally embraced by the leftist media.

35 posted on 05/12/2004 2:21:47 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: theDentist
Enjoy!!!!!

I'm going to read the next few posts and then I am headed to the store to pick up all those evil things that us dirty smoker/trailer trash girls use for fixing dinner............lettuce, tomato, pepper, cucumber and mushroom..........I'm totally out of salad stuff.
36 posted on 05/12/2004 2:27:21 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Just another Joe
That does not take numbers from only bars and restaurants, it uses fast food, takeouts, etc.

They are using the same tactic they used after the Cali smoking ban.

The ban addicts absolutely refuse to look at honest numbers.

Several of the restaurants I used to frequent in Dover only survived the past 2 holiday seasons (Thanksgiving to New Year) because of their catering side lines.

One friend of mine, who actually has an outside deck. patio and bar, barely made ends meet last summer because the weather was so horrendous. The place is for sale and last I heard there haven't even been nibbles of interest.

Anti-smoker gnatzies do not start patronizing places that catered to smokers in the past, they were never there before and aren't there now. Yet they continue to promote the lie they will flock to these businesses. What utter hogwash.

37 posted on 05/12/2004 2:38:19 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Cincinna
Mayor Bloomberg's approval ratings keep rising.

Don't count on it. Baffoonberg's poll numbers work the same way as John Kerry's. When he is quiet they creep up but whenever he speaks they plummet and there is no way one term Mikey can't keep silent through the election and he just can't speak without pissing people off so he is toast.

If he survives a primary challenge, The Rat challenger beats him by at least 65-35

38 posted on 05/12/2004 2:59:24 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: Gabz
Well you are free to spend your money how you see fit, but the ban has not negatively impacted the cities housing or economic activity. That is just wishful thinking by people who don't like it.

City is as popular as ever, housing is still on an upward track, and supply cannot keep up with demand.

So, while you can stay away from NYC, claiming people aren't moving to the city is again propoganda and not fact.
39 posted on 05/12/2004 3:44:24 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay
You ignored the point I made.

My point was they are not moving in BECAUSE of the smoking ban and nothing you have stated has proven me to be wrong.

The smoking ban can not be credited with impacting the housing activity in one way or another......and attempting to make that type of equation is beyond lame.

And while I will continue to stay away from NYC, you claiming that I said that people are not moving there is nothing short of an out right, blatant lie. go back and read my comment......I said people are not moving to NYC because of the ban. I never disagreed with the fact that people are moving to NYC, I only disagreed the ban had anything to do with it.

Most folks with the dollars to buy something more than a room in NYC probably have many more dollars than sense.

I was born and raised in Brooklyn and my parents still live in the house I lived in until I was 22. When I bought my first house a year after my brother bought his I paid only 1/3 of what he did, yet I had a house that was 3 times the size on a piece of property that was more than 10 times the size of his. The difference was he bought in Brooklyn and I bought in Delaware.
40 posted on 05/12/2004 4:20:17 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Gabz

I live in New York and it is still the greatest city in the world.

I don't care what left wing groups support it, my feelings are that the smoker's right to smoke ends at the tip of my noise.

Having the privilege to live in NY and take advantage of the great restaurants we have here on a regular basis makes life more enjoyable, and definitely healthier. Most people wouldn't go to restaurants as often ( NYers according to Zagat dine out 5-7 times a week) if they had to wheeze and choke from someone else's smoke. I have never met any NYer who objects. It is usually the heavy smoking French or other Euros that protest...PS they go anyway.


41 posted on 05/13/2004 6:10:06 PM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: Gabz

New York is such a great place to live. Just go and look for an apartment or house in NYC. The demand is higher than ever. Nothing stays on the market very long, and most properties go for HIGHER than the asking price.You can easily verify by checking the N Y Times Real Estate section.

Your native Brooklyn is undergoing an fabulous renaissance,from Park Slope to Fort Greene, as well as the always gorgeous Brooklyn Heights and Cobble Hill. Brooklyn is considered highly desirable, especially for young families. New Baseball Park in Coney Island for the CYCLONES, tremendous development plans for downtown, the Fabulous redone Brooklyn Museum, gorgeous parks and Botanic Gardens.

Maybe you should think of moving back.


42 posted on 05/13/2004 6:18:04 PM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: HamiltonJay

You are totally correct.

There is a huge housing boom in NYC and prices are rising with no end in sight.

I can understand that many folks don't like city living, but to trash NY the way I see here is silly. For people who love cities, NY is still the greatest city in the world. That is why more and more people want to visit here and live here.

When the RNC comes to town in August, I am certain they will have the time of their lives.


43 posted on 05/13/2004 6:21:41 PM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: Cincinna

I was born and raised in NYC, (BTW, living there is not a privilege, it's a choice for many) .........I did the entire gamut starting from the monthly meetings I attended at the Museum of Natural History as a 7yo to having jobs on Wall Street, Park Avenue and in the Village while I was in college and still living in my parents' home in Brooklyn. The sheep meadow was where I played touch football for years and MSG was my favorite bowling alley.



You like the smoker ban and apparently so do the folks you generally associate with --- more power to you all. My friends are all telling me different stories, from all over the state, not just NYC.


The fact you are in favor of increased government control over private property and small business so you are catered to in your personal preferences says a great deal about you.


44 posted on 05/13/2004 6:46:03 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Cincinna

Get off your high horse........from your comments I get the impression you are not a native NYCer.....if I'm wrong, my sincere apologies.


There is no way and no how I can imagine anyone being able to convince me to move back to the place of my birth. I left NYC when I was 22 with all intentions of being back withing 3-5 years. Since then I have become an adult and I am much happier knowing that my husband and I don't have to worry about our daughter playing out in the yard while we are in the house.


The Slope, the Heights and even the Greenes have been undergoing "renaissance" since before I left the City in 1982. I was born in Park Slope, as was my father. My mother grew up there, but was originally from Flatlands. I grew up in East Flatbush, only 5 blocks from the farmhouse my grandfather's family owned for generations prior to the building of my neighborhood.

I repeat my long ago comment. Housing activity in NYC has NOTHING to do with the bloominidiot's smoker ban.

What the housing activity in NYC gives me just further proof the left is all wet about how bad the economy is.


And when you can tell me that you have purchased a house on 2 acres of land somewhere in NYC for under $60,000 I just might reconsider my attitude that the only thing I lost in NYC was my virginity and therefore have no reason to go back.


45 posted on 05/13/2004 7:15:52 PM PDT by Gabz (Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my second hand smoke.)
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To: Gabz

Government intervention in private affairs? NYC gets the medal for their policy on rent controlled apartments. Cigarette smoking is nothing compared to the control over the best rental units in the city. NYC - the home of American Communism!


46 posted on 05/13/2004 7:30:38 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Bella_Bru
They can take a cue from one of our state's finest. State sinator VIRG(Trademark from his campaign signs) Bernero (D - Lansing). Good ole VIRG proposed a "pop tax" using the cigarette tax as a precident. It's for our children's health of course.....

Luckily, VIRG's tax hasn't gone anywhere so far.

47 posted on 05/13/2004 7:40:47 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("I bury those cockroaches")
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To: Gabz

Your impression is totally wrong. I was born and raised, and have lived most of my life in NYC, except for college and living abroad for 12 years.

Many people leave NY and all they talk about is how they hate it. I hope you are happy where you are, but don't trash others who live here by choice and love it.

I live on a beautiful street lined with huge old trees and beautiful houses. We are a neighborhood that has no crime. Kids play outside and walk to school.

My feelings about the smoking ban are personal. If people on their own can't respect oither's rights, it is the rights of the affected party that take precedence.

NY is very expensive, but for people who love city life, and the quality of life it provides, along with the economic opportunities, it is well worth it.


48 posted on 05/14/2004 1:07:55 AM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: ladyjane

Rent control is a terrible leftover from WW II housing shortage days. It affects under 10% of all renatals. What you might not realize is that there are hardly ANY rentals at all in NY. Everything is Co-op or less common Condo.

Finding a rental in NY is almost impossible.Rent control ends when the person living there moves out or dies. It cannot be passed on.

Get over your hate for NY. It is the city that took the hit for America on 9-11 and stood up beautifully.It is the economic engine that keeps the country running.


49 posted on 05/14/2004 1:12:25 AM PDT by Cincinna (Beware HILLARY and her HINO)
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To: Cincinna
What makes you think I hate NYC? I love it. No place like it in the world. I'm there a lot. And I do have lots of friends who live in rent controlled apartments. It's a great deal for them but certainly not for the landlords. They get to live in what would be million dollar coops for a few hundred dollars a month. Then on weekends they go to their country homes in Litchfield and Rhinebeck.

BTW finding a rental in NY is no problem at all. Finding a 3 bedroom apartment in a pre-war building for $350 a month is 'almost' impossible unless you're connected and you convince the inhabitant to either die or move out. And speaking of dying or moving out - are you trying to argue that 10% of apartment dwellers have lived there continuously for over 60 years? The 'same' apartment renter who was 35 in 1942 is still alive and living in the same apartment? hahahaha

You're a Freeper and you support rent control?????? I thought only communists supported rent control.

50 posted on 05/14/2004 7:58:07 AM PDT by ladyjane
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