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To: kms61; All

I usually do much better with a specific case in front of me to answer such a question--and less well in the abstract. But I'll try . . .

1) Bottom line super key--REBELLION AND DEFIANCE. Keep in mind the adage--DISCIPLINE WITHOUT SUFFICIENT RELATIONSHIP PRODUCES REBELLION. And rebellion and defiance can be observed in the first month of life. If it's still winning out over the parents' wills by the 3-6th month of life and certainly by the 12th month of life, then the child is definitely headed for trouble. If it's still true by the 4th year of life, then the teen years will be hell on all the family.

2) Withdrawn, angry, enclosed, encased demeanors, actions. Now Autism and related problems are another ball park. I'm talking here about more or less physically etc. normal kids.

3) Obsessive people pleasers, super insecure, super manipulative, devious demeanors and actions.

4) Chronic lying, stealing, stubbornness, stubborn pouting relentlessly.

5) A certain look in the eye, spirit about the child that spells TROUBLE.

6) I'll note here--though I'll likely lose a number of you--IT IS VERY, RARE--used to be anyway--for children to be born with a serious demonic problem--whether oppressed or possessed. But it does happen. That sort of problem usually requires serious prayer and fasting on the part of the parents and some members of the church group. Usually, the parents are as rife with demonic problems as the children. That then requires a larger group effort or some comparable spiritual umph to deal with--even to get the parents free enough or listening to God enough to WANT to be free. BTW, I've even seen pets possessed. And the home was not free until either the pet was delivered or removed from the home--calamities still abounded until then. Stopped immediately afterward.

7) Extreme chronic apathy, vacantness, absent--rarely to never PRESENT.




But often, it's been mostly a look in the eye and a feeling about the kid. But certainly the above are serious enough clues which would, for me, predict serious trouble in the teen years and the rest of their adult lives assuming it was never dealt with and worked through. Usually, some variation of reparenting is needed along with tons of emotional, relational and spiritual healing.


37 posted on 05/15/2004 5:33:45 AM PDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Quix
To summarize all your replies -

Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.

In other words, know your child well enough that you know how to point him in the right direction.

That takes TIME, listening and talking. Only then can we hope to point a child in the way he should go.

My two kids were as different as night and day. I did NOT discipline them in the same ways, but in the way that was right for them. As a result, they are both living well as young adults.

82 posted on 05/15/2004 12:11:57 PM PDT by mombonn
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