Posted on 05/18/2004 7:57:56 PM PDT by CurlyBill
TORONTO -- Terry Francona gave all the standard answers to the standard questions after yesterday's 3-1 loss to Roy Halladay and the Toronto Blue Jays. The Sox had just played three weeks without a scheduled day off, they'd fallen out of first place, and they'd wasted another good performance by Pedro Martinez.
They were looking forward to flying to Tampa for today's offday, and the rookies were putting on their Hooter's uniforms (the annual rookie hazing, usually reserved for a trip through Customs) when the press filed out of the manager's office.
Oh, and one more thing, Francona remembered, "Watch for the haunted rooms."
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
Ping!!!
David Hufford's academic work, subtitled An Experience Centered Study of Supernatural Assault Traditions, deals with the so-called 'Old Hag' experience, a psychologically disturbing event in which a victim claims to have encountered some form of malign entity whilst dreaming (or awake). Sufferers report feeling suffocated, held down by some 'force', paralyzed-and extremely afraid. It is an experience which is surprisingly common, with Hufford estimating that approximately 15% of people undergo it at some point in their lives. Various cultures have their own name for the phenomenon, and have constructed their own mythology around it; the supernatural tenor of many Old Hag stories is unavoidable. Hufford, as a folklorist, is well-placed to investigate this puzzling occurrence.
I experienced that when I was young, maybe 7 or 8 years old. Extremely frightening and very, very real.
I've talked to two people so far who have reported experiencing it along with some type of waking visual or tactile experience. I've talked to many more people who have reported experiencing it while asleep, which seems to be the more common experience. Sometimes the sleeping version seems to be triggered by sleeping position--I've experienced the sleeping version and woke up to find that during my sleep I had turned into a position that was twisting my neck or cutting off circulation to one of my limbs, and my dreams were reflecting that. But in other cases there are waking phenomena reported as well. It's definitely extremely frightening.
That was my experience, although it would start where I would sense a very evil presence creeping up on me. I would try to force myself awake by yelling, but I could hardly get anything out and couldn't force myself awake. It was like I was awake and aware of everything around me yet still in a deep sleep. I felt paralyzed. I remember seeing the 'old hag', or 'the witch' as I called her, on some of the occurrences, but not always.
I believe that the "old hag" is also known as a succubus and dates back at least to the middle ages. The male version is known as the incubus. Its thought that this was the cause of what we know today as sleeping disorders (and I suffer from one).
I used to suffer that often as a child, where I would awaken paralyzed and begin to see things, and have the strong feeling that if I could only move or make a sound, I would break the paralysis, but the more I would try, the stronger the paralysis would get. I had some VERY frightening episodes. It happens rarely, now that I'm in my 40s, but it happened a few weeks ago, during the day when it's not scary.
You are right! Interesting story and THANKS!
for the ping,
;-)
The succubus and the incubus are said to involve sex. That would be a different thing altogether!
I had asthma when I was a child & had some terrifying dreams connected to not being able to breathe or move but I don't recall any person in those dreams. I now get panic feelings in small close spaces where there is no fresh air even tho I rarely have asthma now. I don't think I have ever heard of the phenomenon of which you speak.
I was told that the paralysis is a natural occurrence...the body falls into a sleep paralysis to protect yourself against, well, yourself and acting out the movements you are experiecing in your dreams.
When in this state, the mind is semi-conscious but the body is still paralyzed.
Whatever it is, it sucks.
I was in my twenties.........
Thanks for the ping! ;)
Thanks for the ping. Being in Cincy, I'm familiar with this pitcher, always seemed an "average joe".
I've had that type of dream where I'm aware of everything around me but can't move. (BTW when this happens to me I usually see everything around me is dark and I try to turn the light on but it won't come on--does this happen in yours?). Sometimes in this type of dream I sense an evil presence though not always; sometimes I just sense myself panicking that I can't move (and perhaps the fear generated by this panic is what summons the evil presence?--evil seems to be drawn to strong fear and anger, in my experience). Hufford's book identifies this type of dream with a sleep state called the "hypnagogic state" that occurs during the transition between waking and sleep and vice-versa, as the mind and brain are adjusting to being in the dream state rather than the waking state:
The hypnagogic state is a state of transition in semiconsciousness between being awake and being asleep, and may be a form of sleep paralysis. Some experience visual and/or auditory hallucinations. Out of Body experiences may be experienced. See also hypnopompic state, a similar state between sleep and awakeness.
Many people have reported--and I've found this has worked for me--that when you feel paralyzed in this type of dream, you can break the paralysis by focusing your effort on moving a small part of your body, even your pinky, which breaks the hypnagogic state by reactivating your tactile awareness of your body and physical surroundings. I had a dream once where something invisible was trying to choke me, and in response in my dream I started instinctively trying to do a Kung Fu move I was studying at the time. It took me a few seconds of mentally trying to do the move before I "felt" myself doing the move in my dream, whereupon I woke up. Needless to say, I didn't want to go back to sleep for a while after that :) I had this overwhelming urge to grab a Bible, run to the church down the street, call my brother at 3 am, etc. I definitely know what you mean by a sense of evil presence, though fortunately I didn't visually see anything, which would've made it even scarier.
What kind of sleep disorder do you have? I've had insomnia myself since I was about 12, which lately is aggravated by a sinus/migraine problem.
On the incubus/succubus experience, the anthropologist Edward Burnett Tylor in his book Religion in Primitive Culture mentions that in addition to medieval Europe, traditions about this type of experience are also found in other cultures. The succubus/incubus experience can indeed be very similar to the Old Hag experience Hufford focuses on. He observes this and suggests for classification purposes that the succubus/incubus experience is usually described as having a sexual component whereas the Old Hag experience usually doesn't, though sometimes there are Old Hag experiences which take on a sexual element so these are overlapping categories. I'd add to what he says that sometimes there are succubus/incubus experiences which don't involve a sense of paralysis, and like the Old Hag experience the succubus/incubus experience may occur both while sleeping and while awake, though it seems to be more common in sleep.
See my Post #16 on my experience with this. I've never heard of this happening during the day before. What was that like? Did you notice anything which seemed to trigger it or break it?
Yes, though they do have some things in common--see my #17 for my thoughts on this.
I sometimes have a similar though distinct type of dream which typically involves me climbing up an increasingly narrow spiralling staircase until it gets so narrow I can't move. I woke up once from this type of dream and my neck was twisted way to the side on my pillow in a way that was putting unnatural strain on it, so I think that might be what caused it in that case. I could see how a bad case of asthma might also trigger that type of dream. I'd infer adults and children with sleep apnea might also experience this type of thing.
What's with the help these days? He should have stood his ground and announced in a firm voice there would be an exorcism next time his clothes aren't placed neatly in the drawers.
LOL, after our recent spooky threads, I've been googling ghostie sites. I found a neat site with listings of haunts by states but tried reading it the other night when everyone was away from home - Eeek! There's supposed to be a haunted bridge on the other side of the county I'd like to check out. Daytime is one thing but at night I'm definitely not going without Mr. M, the kids, and the dog in tow.
http://www.theshadowlands.net/places/
Not to sound overbearing or melodramatic, but out of genuine concern motivated by my own experience, please consider this logical pair of questions: If it's not really haunted, what's the point in going? But if it is really haunted, is it really something you want to risk exposing yourself and your family to? Again I'm not trying to tell you what to do or scare you, but please think about it before you decide to go.
BTW, that's an interesting link--thanks for posting that.
Planet, I do not recall hearing any specific noise when I have these episodes. However, I have tinnitis (ringing in the ears), so I've been "hearing things" my whole life.
Fedora, I'll preface my answer by mentioning that the symptoms that you mentioned in your response #16--the hallucinations and out of body experiences--have been part of my experience. The most frightening episode I ever had happened when I "awoke" paralyzed, fought it and got out of bed to go to my parents' room because I was scared. A horde of phantoms, wispy white and grey, gathered around me in the hallway, completely surrounding me. I realized then that I had not really broken out of the paralysis state.
Now, to answer the question, what is it like during the day? It is like a night experience in that I am still paralyzed, and I can still see the room. But, because I have the certain knowledge that ghosts do not come out during the day (please, don't anyone tell me different!), I'm not scared. Since I'm not scared, I'll usually go back to sleep fairly soon, and when I wake up again, everything is normal. I'm not sure what triggers it, either at night or during the day.
Some advice: my grandmother (yes, it's a family thing, and all of my relatives do this) said that the best way to break the paralysis is to force yourself to relax. It works, if you can manage to relax while being terrified!
Your grandmother's advice sounds good :) Slow breathing can help with that--counteracts the physiological panic symptoms.
During the day experience you describe, were you sleeping during the day when this happened or were you awake?
When I was a kid I had dreams like you mention with thinking I woke up and going to my parents' room, only to find out I was still asleep! Fortunately there were no phantoms in those dreams. However one time I did dream I wandered out to the living room and there was this monster there which was a recurring figure in my dreams. Usually at that point in the dream I would wake up if it got too scary.
I have sleep apnia (sp?) which is a case of irregular breathing during sleep. It causes me to sometimes stop breathing and then gasp for air. Sometimes I am even conscious of it when I am sleeping.
I usually spell it "apnia", too :) But I guess it's supposed to be "apnea" or "apnoea". I looked it up earlier when I was writing my Post #20 where I speculated that it might be related to sleep paralysis.
One thing the author mentions is that "Over the years sleep paralysis has been well characterized, and is now known to be a normal event occurring at least once in about half the population." Another part says:
A rare form of sleep paralysis is associated with terrifying visual hallucinations. The individual is wide awake yet paralysed, and envisions some creature trying to harm them. The best described vision is that of a small malevolent creature that straddles the victim; the creature either compresses the chest or attemps to strangulate the victim, and the feeling is that the creature is actively trying to kill the sleeper. This experience is depicted in Fuseli's Nightmare (1781).
Thanks for the link to the Web Gallery of Art.
I have actually been able to control my sleep apnea with increased exercise, weight loss, and albuterol. I also quit smoking.
That's a very hard question to answer! I know I'm always asleep immediate prior to a paralysis episode, but I still don't know if I'm awake, asleep, or somewhere in between during the episode. That is true for both night and day episodes.
I'm glad you're making some progress on controlling your sleep apnea. In addition to the methods you mention, when I was looking up some stuff on apnea a while back (to help with someone's kid who had night sweats) I noticed there are also masks and herbal remedies for helping with apnea--have you ever tried any of those types of products?
You're welcome. I thought it was a neat picture so I included the link for it.
That would be unnerving for me if I didn't know if I was asleep or awake! I sometimes have dreams where it seems like I'm awake, but eventually when I really do wake up I can tell what was in the dream vs. what was actual waking experience. If I couldn't tell it'd probably be very unsettling!
"Ghost Story" bump. Just got around to reading this thread.
I had it a number of times, and I was awakened and paralyzed. I sometimes saw shadows, saw drapes and other things move, and also heard a multitude of voices. I saw and heard these things on a number of occasions while wide awake with all the lights on. I've seen a multitude of things over the years I've been looking into this stuff, and anybody who writes off these attacks as purely psychological or physiological has never really been in the middle of one.
This is true. It happened once to me, where I woke up, couldn't move, but could see what was on TV, see around the room, etc. I heard the voices, laughter, etc., and tried desperately to call out for my mother down the hall. All that would come out was a breathy whisper. I focused all my attention on moving one of my digits, and as soon as it moved even a little, I regained full mobility, and the yell came out of my mouth. It happened to me quite often when I was in my teens and early twenties. I had friends who slept over that saw odd things, and my brother experienced a lot of the same stuff I did.
Those sound like some frightening experiences. I hope that has not happened to you as much recently. My worst experiences with things like that came when I was living in my grandmother's house, where other relatives also reported strange things. When I moved out of there things died down considerably.
I've seen a lot of weird stuff since then. The last 3 places we lived in had odd stuff happen in them. Some of it centered around the kids, some of it not. Benign stuff like my young son seeing his mother's dead friend, and something covering the baby up and raising the gate on the crib.
Other not so benign stuff like something turning the gas on on my stove, frightening the kids at night, turning my wife's angel figurines around, and one of the wax one's developing a melt in an air-conditioned house. I dropped my wedding ring once, and my wife and I looked all over for it. I even took off my pants and shook out the cuffs. Just as I gave up, and I sat down on the floor, the ring popped out of the air about six inches above the rug, and fell next to me. I looked at my wife and asked her if she saw the same thing I did. She said, "What, you're ring falling out of the air?"
It's something that comes and goes. The last apartment had shadows, the sound of feet running through the rooms, orbs in pictures... It seems worse when I have my great-grandmother's old iron bed in the house. She had it for years, and she found it in a pasture, where it had been abandoned. I had it repainted once, and it had about 7 layers of paint on it, so who knows where it came from originally. If it hadn't belonged to her, I'd have probably gotten rid of it years ago. I've got it back in storage right now.
A couple items there sound more serious than a normal haunting.
That stuff seems to be tied to any place I've had the bed. Even when I was a kid, she had odd things bother her in her house. Most of the family chalked it up to imagination, but I was there more than once when it happened. I'm thinking of passing it down to my oldest son, but I'll have to have it blessed or something first.
Sounds like a lot to put up with for a bed!--must have a lot of sentimental value. You could try having it blessed, I suppose. I'd probably just get a new bed myself! :) Best wishes with that--said a prayer on it for you.
Thanks. I guess I got so used to it, I just dealt with it. I finally bought a new queen size, just for the extra sprawling room. :)
LOL!
Glad you posted that - even on an old thread. Reminded me to ask a visitor here tonight about the bridge.
Neat story about the high school auditorium. It'd be a sell out if they left him popcorn on the seat.
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