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THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE
Insider Report ^ | Larry Abraham

Posted on 05/22/2004 5:51:40 AM PDT by KeyLargo

THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE GREAT CALIPHATE By Larry Abraham

As we watch and listen to all the Democrat Party candidates running for the nomination of their party, it is tantamount to enduring the Chinese water torture. The blah, blah, blah goes on and nothing of value comes out except the pain of listening to the same nothingness over and over again. I won’t take the time or space to repeat what you have heard so many, mind numbing times over the past months but what you have not heard is crucial.

I must also fault President Bush and the administration spokesmen for not telling the American people what they really need to know about this “war”. If they don’t do that sometime between now and November it may cost them the election.

It Did Not Start on 9/11

The war we are now facing did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it end with the peaceful transition to civilian authorities in Iraq, whenever that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this encounter, but an important one none the less.

This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the “ Third Great Jihad” and are doing so within the framework of a time line which reaches back to the very creation of Islam in the Seventh century and their attempts to recreate the dynamics which gave rise to the religion in the first two hundred years of its existence.

No religion in history grew as fast, in its infancy, than did Islam and the reasons for this growth are not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time of Muhammad’s death in 632 AD. The Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern Empire was based in Constantinople and trying desperately to keep the power of its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de facto state religion. The costs to the average person were unbearable as he was being required to meet the constantly rising taxes levied from the state along with the tithes coerced by the Church. What Islam offered was the “carrot or the sword”.

If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn’t, you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and Christianity were given their due by the Prophet. There is but one God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian Jewish prophets of the Torah (old testament). Both were called “children of the book”, the book being the Koran, which replaced both the Old and New testaments for Christians and Jews.

With this practical approach to spreading the “word” Islam grew like wild fire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions. This early growth is what the Muslims call the “first” great Jihad and it met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France, after they had firmly established the religion on the Iberian peninsula. This first onslaught against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.

The “second great jihad” came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms. The Ottoman Empire was Islam’s most successful expansion of territory even though the religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with each claiming the ultimate truths in “the ways of the Prophet”. By 1683 the Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the final and failed attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads. However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival know has Wahhabism which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites. What this sect calls for is the complete and total rejection of anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and it finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afgani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the “third Jihad”.

Jimmy Carter sets the stage

The strategy for this “holy war” did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the plans for toppling the Shah of Iran back in the early 1970’s and culminated with his exile in 1979. With his plans and programs to “westernize” his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target.

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his arm forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the “Great Caliphate”.

The Great Caliphate

What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in any country with Muslim majorities. This would include, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and finally what they call the “occupied territory” Israel.

As a part of this strategy, forces of the jihad will infiltrate governments and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership is ousted or assassinated. Such was the case in Lebanon leading to the Syrian occupation and what was attempted in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt and Musharraf in Pakistan. Pakistan is a particular prize because of its nuclear weapons.

The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. 1. The U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia, following Vietnam. 2. Taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves, and 3. Using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations.

Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the facts that immediately following the 9/11 attack, their first move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be the next targets for al Qaeda while Americans focused on the disaster in New York. The administration also knew that the most important objective was to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay, not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists. The attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison. Why Iraq?

The war on Iraq also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much collaboration existed between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the Third Jihad or his willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups including the PLO in Israel. What was known, were serious indications of on-going collaboration, as Saddam funneled money to families of suicide bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait.

What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location which effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of other strategic reasons.

Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their demonstrations, world-wide, to “Stop The War”. Failing this, they also laid plans to build a political campaign inside the country, with the War in Iraq as a plebiscite, using a little know politician as the thrust point; Howard Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called the “Dean Phenomenon”.

By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the “Hate Bush” liberals, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the aspirants, minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e. Vietnam, once the U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the destruction of Israel.

Should George W. Bush be defeated in November and a new administration come to power we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations would then become a life changing event in all of our lives.

What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I believe that this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors, V.I. Lenin admonished…”two steps forward, one step back”.

A couple of additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank Church and Carter’s CIA Director, Admiral Stansfield Turner. This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day with consequences which are now obvious. Jimmy Carter is the one man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of the Third Jihad. Americans should find little comfort in how the Democrat contenders constantly seek the “advice and counsel” of this despicable little hypocrite who now prances around with his Nobel Prize, while attacking President Bush with almost as much venom as his fellow Nobel Laureate, Yassir Arafat.

Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French.

Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Amid Ben Bella, the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totally twenty percent of the population. We are in the battle of our lives which will go on for many years possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing or falter in the challenge of “knowing our enemy” the results will be catastrophic.

PART II (May 1, 2004)

Since writing the above, we have witnessed some frightening evidence in support of our hypothesis both internally and in other parts of the world.

The al Qaeda bombing in Madrid has emboldened our enemy into believing it can use terror as an instrument for democratic regime change. Based on what happened there, they may be right.

Kerry and bin Laden on the same page

John Kerry and other leaders of his party constantly refer to the United States as “acting unilaterally.” They give no credit whatsoever to countries like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Australia or even tiny Honduras for putting their limited armed forces in harm’s way to support the U.S. led coalition in Iraq. It is little wonder that some are considering doing what Spain has done—pulling out. The leaders in these countries have spent considerable political capital in this effort, and have little to show for it as it relates to fostering good will with the American public. Couple that fact with Osama bin Ladin’s latest offer of withholding attacks on those who “quit” the coalition and you have all the elements for a Democrat party fostered “self-fulfilling prophecy” where the U.S. will be totally alone in the pacification of Iraq. John Kerry and the Bush critics persist in the “lie” of the U.S. going it “alone” in Iraq but Osama bin Laden knows differently and will use the Kerry rhetoric to help isolate the U.S. The terrorists now see themselves as political “king-makers”. They may be right.

Another aspect of the “anti-Bush” political axis is how both his political enemies and the main stream media take ghoulish delight in “the body count,” just as they did in the later days of Vietnam. Oh sure, they pay incidental homage to the memory of the young Americans who gave their lives in the greatest threat this country has ever faced, but they do so with all the sincerity of Madonna making a vow of chastity. As the body bags grow in number, they believe, so grows their political prospects. They may be right.

If the Bush administration is further weakened in the months leading up to the November elections, we will witness a heightened al Qaeda offensive in all parts of the world, including our own country, and especially in Iraq and nations surrounding it ,i.e., Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Events within the past few days in Jordan not only make this argument but also point to the possibility of “what happened to the WMDs.” Iran and Syria are daily growing more overt and bold in their support of insurgents within Iraq, believing that Bush has been so hurt by internal politics that he is powerless to act against them in any meaningful way. They may be right.

The Leftwing initiative, Political Correctness and Our Will to Win

Within our own country we are witnessing and almost insane application of “political correctness.” As the barbarism of radical Islam grows more apparent in the streets of the Middle East from Gaza to Basra, we see a cultural suicide taking place within our own schools and communities.

Our children are being taught from the Koran, our professors are preaching intifadah in their class rooms, and Muslim “call to prayer” loud speakers are blaring out from city halls. The more precarious our very existence becomes, the more our liberal brethren embrace their enemies. It is a Stockholm Syndrome which can only lead to the recruitment of young Muslims who will be willing to duplicate in the West what their co-religionists are doing in the streets of Israel and the market places of Baghdad. The liberal P.C. crowd say nothing about the silence of the Muslim religious leadership as it relates to the carnage of innocents but couldn’t speak out fast enough against the inspiration supplied to tens of millions of Christians by Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ. They were put off by the movie’s “violence” and its alleged “fostering of anti-Semitism”. Movies must represent their “reality” as the real thing moves them not at all. Among liberal Jews in America, hatred of George W. Bush is only surpassed by their contempt for Ariel Sharon…Let them explain it, I am at a total loss to do so. Maybe they just miss seeing Bill Clinton smooching Yassir Arafat in the White House Rose Garden.

The “Reverend” Jesse Jackson is now calling the U.S. “guilty of crimes against humanity” as he sets out to mobilize the non-Islamic Left. None of the Democrat leadership says a word in opposition to Jackson’s treason or Hillary’s attacks on the President and U.S. policy in an Arabic newspaper, while in London. You can bet that al Jezeera didn’t miss a beat in their reporting of both events.

The campaign takes its toll

The campaign is seriously hurting Mr. Bush’s leadership role in the War on Terror. While ducking every new book critical of his initiative or trying to counter the partisan nitpicking of the 9/11 Commission, he has persisted in the misbegotten insistence of “installing democracy” in Iraq. Our purpose for being in that beleaguered country should be restricted to one purpose and one purpose only, to stop the expansion of The Third Jihad and provide a base for doing same in the neighboring areas. This can be done by sealing the borders, attacking anything that moves in violation of same and by making it clear to Syria and Iran that any participation on their part will be considered an “act of war”. Let the country be governed by the local tribes, Shiite in the south, Sunni in the central and Kurds in the north with a U.S. pro consul overseeing the military. Oil revenues could be spilt by population allocation. How about installing a Republic…it worked pretty well here with diverse populations.

The very idea that we should spend our sons and daughters blood or our tax dollars on trying to building a “democracy” in the region which has neither a history nor a desire for such, is sheer nonsense. The very essence of Islamic teaching speaks directly against this principle. Continuing on the current path can only result in fostering greater hatred for the “Great Satan”. Force is the only thing which is respected in that part of the world and this force need not be tied to “reform”. I suggest Mr. Rumsfled acquaint himself with a copy of Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars and Sun Tsu’s Art of War. All the tactics and strategies necessary to subdue the Iraqi insurgents can be found in those two military gems.

Please not the UN

Bringing the U.N. to the party will only compound the problem without adding any accountability. The U.N. has been accused of many things over the years, but being a “democratic” institution has never been one of them. Just the latest scandal of the “Oil for Food” program should provide any thinking person with all the evidence they need to keep the U.N. at bay. But this doesn’t seem to bother the likes of the John Kerry’s of the world who prattle on as if the scam doesn’t even exist.

Just one example will make my case; the UN mandate in Israel, which has been in place since 1948. One more salient point needs to be made on this subject. There is no such thing as “The International Community.” There are only individual countries, each with its own agenda which is always self serving. The myth of a higher level of “moral authority” coming out of the UN as been one of the greater lies of the past half century, but it is a lie which persists in spite of a bloody record of hypocrisy, graft, genocide and “perpetual war for perpetual peace.” I have a suggestion for the 9/11 Commission:.Why don’t they look into what the UN was doing before the attack on the World Trade Center? If they do, they will find that exactly one week before, the UN was holding a Conference on Racism in Durbin, South Africa where the delegates voted overwhelmingly to condemn Israel, as “racist and terrorist.” The U.S., Canadian and Israeli delegates walked out in disgust. Nary a word was uttered about Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda, or the Taliban, to say nothing of what was happening in Rwanda while they crunched caviar on toast and washed it down with vintage Champaign. Genocide does not qualify as “racism” according to the UN “morality.” Neither we nor the world needs the UN to muck up what is already a very delicate situation. If given proper leadership every Middle Eastern country named above will throw in with the Coalition, for if they don’t they will be the next targets of the Third Great Jihad and the Great Caliphate. Pakistan is already showing the leadership which others will follow. What do you think moved Kadahaffi to cozy up to the U.S. and Great Britain? He fears the Jihadist more than he hates us.

Evil Does Exist

Our current crises, in meeting the threat of the Third Jihad, is one more example of how most Americans simply refuse to believe there is evil in this world and are willing to grant moral equivalence on any human action. Unless the crime is personalized such as in the case of Lacy Peterson, we lose interest quickly and become bored or at least not involved.

To try and understand what we are facing, look into the eyes of your son or grandson and try to fathom a mind which would take pride in strapping a bomb to his body and sending him out to kill himself and countless innocent people. Or in the case of your daughter or grand daughter, try to imagine a religion which commands you to mutilate her vagina to destroy her sex drive or demands you to stone her to death if she has sexual relations with a man other than of your choosing.

If you can comprehend these facts both intellectually and emotionally, then you will start to understand what we are facing in the months and years ahead, both at home and abroad.

The radicals of Islam will stop at nothing to destroy us and all we stand for. They see this war as their “entry to paradise” and a release from the miserable existence they have built for themselves within the confines of an evil and perverse religion. The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims. But, like terrorists everywhere they have silenced any criticisms from fellow Muslims through threat and intimidation and have, with the help of the ‘useful idiots” in the West, “created the appearance of popular support”.

If we are incapable of understanding these realities and acting accordingly, within the life time of everyone who reads these words, we will see our cherished way of like cease to exist and chaos become our lot. The Clash of Civilizations is now reaching out and touching all of us. May God grant us the wisdom and the courage to meet the challenge.

I respectfully dedicate the above to the memory of Pat Tillman and his 872 comrades who by their courage and willing sacrifice set an example for every American. May we be worthy of their “greatest love…”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: clashofcivilizations; jihad
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"The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. 1. The U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia, following Vietnam. 2. Taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves, and 3. Using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations..."

This sounds very possible.

1 posted on 05/22/2004 5:51:42 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

bump


2 posted on 05/22/2004 6:01:16 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Constitution Day; NCSteve; rrrod; upchuck; dixie sass; nutmeg; zelig; Helms; Liz; TaxRelief; ...

Islamofascist Global Domination Ping!


4 posted on 05/22/2004 6:03:27 AM PDT by Huber (Clinton's military policies caused the Abu Ghraib debacle)
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To: KeyLargo; nuconvert; Valin; AdmSmith; Pan_Yans Wife; Luis Gonzalez; kabar; SusanTK; Cindy; ...

PING!


5 posted on 05/22/2004 6:03:44 AM PDT by F14 Pilot (John ''Fedayeen" sKerry - the Mullahs' regime candidate)
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To: KeyLargo

WOW! What an editorial!

"Should George W. Bush be defeated in November and a new administration come to power we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations would then become a life changing event in all of our lives."

This needs to be beaten into the heads of any and all naysayers of what we're trying to accomplish in Iraq and elsewhere in the war on terrorism.


6 posted on 05/22/2004 6:27:13 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: KeyLargo

What, no MUST READ alert? Excellent post. It should hung from every front door and lamp post in this country.

I do not think Bush will ever progress from talking about "terrorism" to talking about "jihad"; however I think the next president will. Assuming Bush wins of course, because if Kerry gets in we won't be talking about any of this, we'll just be living with it every day.


7 posted on 05/22/2004 6:28:33 AM PDT by jocon307 (The dems don't get it, the American people do.)
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To: KeyLargo

We've been fighting Islam since this country has been a nation. The Barbary pirates were harassing American merchantmen in the Med, giving rise to the United States Navy. Historically the only tactic that keeps the moslems in check is a strong beating. A crushing and humiliating defeat such as the Battle of Tours generally shuts the moslems up for a few centuries. Until the multiculturalists and tolerance Nazis in our society take a seat, we'll just have to hope Tom Ridge has his fat dumb ass in gear.


8 posted on 05/22/2004 6:30:10 AM PDT by rageaholic
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To: KeyLargo; All
This article isn't anti-Muslim.....please don't go off on that tangent......Mr. Abraham clearly states, " The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims.
9 posted on 05/22/2004 6:35:51 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: KeyLargo
Good post. Larry Abraham did well.

5.56mm

10 posted on 05/22/2004 6:41:13 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Valin; Luis Gonzalez; AdmSmith; Pan_Yans Wife

Another long one...but WoW...PONG!


11 posted on 05/22/2004 6:41:16 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: KeyLargo

Thanks for posting such a great article!


12 posted on 05/22/2004 6:48:59 AM PDT by F14 Pilot (John ''Fedayeen" sKerry - the Mullahs' regime candidate)
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To: KeyLargo
Interesting.

There never was a "Great Caliphate" though: some really great times for the Caliphs, their families, and their courtiers, mind you, but really atrocious times for their subjects, their slaves, or their neighbors. (Reminds me of Mel Brooks' famous line as King Louis XIV in History of the World, Part I as he fondles some bystander's breasts - "It's great to be the King!".

Like many other figments of somebody's fevered brain, that period of history is best left to the musty graveyards where it ended.

13 posted on 05/22/2004 6:49:40 AM PDT by USMCVet
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To: KeyLargo

Great find! This one's a keeper.


14 posted on 05/22/2004 6:54:57 AM PDT by EggsAckley ("people who go to the Supreme Court ought to interpret the Constitution as it is interpreted...")
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To: KeyLargo

Excellent article.. Thanks..


15 posted on 05/22/2004 7:15:15 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom.... not just a job, ... It's An Adventure!!!)
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To: KeyLargo

Like I said before...Islam will rise or fall (utterly) in
the future.

If it's the truth, it will ultimately be victorious.

But if it's a false cult (like I believe), it will be exposed and defeated in the end.

So get ready for a wild freakin' ride because the crap's gonna hit the fan. Better get to know Jesus!


16 posted on 05/22/2004 7:17:27 AM PDT by jamfull
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To: Drammach

Great article!

He forgot the "Peace Dividend" that we are paying dearly for right now!


17 posted on 05/22/2004 7:21:40 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi
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To: F14 Pilot
Thanks!

Evil Does Exist!
Something so many on the left don't seem to understand.
There really are bad guys out there, they're not misunderstood, they're not poor, uneducated, or in need of a hug. They want to kill you because you don't think the way they do, they've been around since the beginning of history, and really the only thing you can do fight and kill them.

18 posted on 05/22/2004 7:28:19 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: nuconvert

Trouble maker! :-)


19 posted on 05/22/2004 7:30:30 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: Valin

Little ole me?


20 posted on 05/22/2004 7:35:10 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: KeyLargo
If we are incapable of understanding these realities and acting accordingly, within the life time of everyone who reads these words, we will see our cherished way of like cease to exist and chaos become our lot. The Clash of Civilizations is now reaching out and touching all of us. May God grant us the wisdom and the courage to meet the challenge.

I'm afraid things will have to get much worse here before there is a critical mass that will heed these words.

21 posted on 05/22/2004 7:42:32 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48
"I'm afraid things will have to get much worse here before there is a critical mass that will heed these words."

And I am afraid that you are correct on that score!

22 posted on 05/22/2004 7:54:28 AM PDT by NoClones
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To: KeyLargo

WOW!
Not only had to save the article but all the responses posted to it.
Very good stuff.


23 posted on 05/22/2004 7:54:57 AM PDT by norton
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To: KeyLargo

A fine article.

Although I am afraid that we will have to experience the war more close at hand - like September 11 - before the left is able to overcome its hatred for Bush and conservatism and see the real danger from this evil.

At any rate, I am making copies right now and will go to Staples in order to make more. I then will send them out.

It should be important to note that copies of the essay need to be sent to left wing faction members we are acquainted with, so as to avoid preaching to the choir.


24 posted on 05/22/2004 8:18:57 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: wingman1
Should the war of civilizations reach our shores on a major level, I think it would be wiser to consider the Left as equals/sympathizers with the jihadists rather than trying to sway them to our side. We wouldn't have the luxury of time to educate or deprogram them. Exterminate on sight if they aren't clearly with us before it hits the fan.
25 posted on 05/22/2004 8:34:56 AM PDT by datura (Let's drop the pretense. It's time to declare this a CRUSADE and finish it once and for all.)
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To: KeyLargo
If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn’t, you faced death.

This seems to be a common strategies for changing religion. In Europe the early spread of Christianity was encouraged by the taxation. You could only inherit if you were a Christian.
26 posted on 05/22/2004 8:50:41 AM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: datura

The more immediate concern should be that by circulating Mr. Abraham's essay it will enlighten numbers of left leaning individuals who will then cast votes for President Bush. That is what I mean.

Naturally there are the hopeless, useful idiot types, who will never learn.

On the other hand, there are many converts who were made by events of 9/11. We all have examples of those who were relieved Bush was CinC on that day, even after having voted for Gore.


27 posted on 05/22/2004 8:51:15 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: nuconvert
The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims.

The size of the font matters not. Until the alleged non-jihadi muslims step up and let their actions speak to the truth of that statement, it is nothing other than baseless rhetoric.

Beware the Trojan horse.

28 posted on 05/22/2004 9:02:05 AM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: datura
If there were a middle eastern desert atoll, sparsely inhabited, where we might 'accidently' crack a small nuke it might get someone's attention.

Then, we could issue a rapid apology......"Whoops!"

29 posted on 05/22/2004 9:06:56 AM PDT by budwiesest
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To: KeyLargo

Bttt


30 posted on 05/22/2004 9:12:42 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: KeyLargo

Great article and true, but it's contents are no more dangerous to the USofA than the FTAA treaty.


31 posted on 05/22/2004 9:14:39 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: jocon307

IF Kerry wins I predict we still get attacked and THIS TIME the Left (because one of theirs is in charge)suddenly finds the courage to do what is necessary.No more concern over "prison abuse" by the press. In fact the suspension of civil liberties here at home will actually be applauded.


32 posted on 05/22/2004 11:58:43 AM PDT by bombthrower
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To: Freebird Forever

I don't think all the articles stating Mr. Abraham's view, differentiating between the average muslim and radical fundamentalists, 'jihadists' and terrorists are written by people being fooled by a muslim "trojan horse". Nor do I think the White House is being fooled.


33 posted on 05/22/2004 1:44:46 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: nuconvert
I don't think all the articles stating Mr. Abraham's view, differentiating between the average muslim and radical fundamentalists, 'jihadists' and terrorists are written by people being fooled by a muslim "trojan horse".

That sentence is a bit hard to follow. But I'll cut you some slack because it appears that English isn't your native tongue.

Anderson certainly produced a thought provoking treatise. But he is only one voice among many.

Steve Emerson & Daniel Pipes have both put forth studied analyses of how deeply the jihadi mindset is rooted in islam.

Which brings me back to the main point of my previous post that you either purposely avoided or it went over your head.

So, I will restate & (hopefully) simplify:

If the great majority of muslims oppose the position of the radical jihadi, why is it not publicly denounced worldwide?

The silence of 1.2 billion people speaks volumes.

IMO, it is either naive or disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

34 posted on 05/22/2004 3:13:58 PM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: Freebird Forever

Hmmm.....I don't have a problem with that sentence.....

"he is only one voice among many." That's what the sentence was saying....."all the articles stating Mr. Abraham's view" (written by other people) are not being "fooled by a muslim trojan horse").

Yes, jihad is 'rooted' in Islam, no one's arguing that. What they do say is that, " The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims."
That was my point. This article isn't an attack on muslims; it's about jihadists, the radicals, terrorists.

There has been denunciation. There were links posted a couple days ago. I wish more muslims would publicly speak out more. But on the other hand, the fact that you and others haven't heard about the denunciations "speaks volumes" about the media, and what they choose to report.


35 posted on 05/22/2004 3:31:16 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: Freebird Forever; nuconvert
"The silence of 1.2 billion people speaks volumes."

Can you show me where billions of Christians have publicly denounced terrorism?

Their silence is equally deafening, or so it would seem that way.

But yet, you and I both saw millions world-wide denouncing the invasion of Iraq.

So, if one would follow your argument to its logical conclusion, it would appear that Christians support the Jihad as well.

Then again, my guess is that you've never really looked for the answer.

And yes, discard CAIR's statement, but don't dismiss them all based on that.

36 posted on 05/22/2004 8:45:19 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Thanks for that link


37 posted on 05/22/2004 9:11:59 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Can you show me where billions of Christians have publicly denounced terrorism?

Christian religions / sects aren't the instigators of virtually every major conflict and terrorist act on the planet. islam is. The condemnation of an outsider has no bearing in this exercise.

Their silence is equally deafening, or so it would seem that way.

Apples and oranges, as you are well aware.

In a historical context, christians have condemned the inquisitions, the genocides and the slavery done in their name.

But yet, you and I both saw millions world-wide denouncing the invasion of Iraq.

Freedom is a beautiful thing. If Americans had not fought, bled and died for it in past wars, most of those ungrateful bitches and whiners would not have the ability to publicly state their feelings.

The Iraqi people already are exercising this new freedom. Something they could not do under Hussein

So, if one would follow your argument to its logical conclusion, it would appear that Christians support the Jihad as well.

You started with a false premise. Your "logic" is completely flawed.

Then again, my guess is that you've never really looked for the answer. And yes, discard CAIR's statement, but don't dismiss them all based on that.

Whereas the bible condemns deceit, the koran permits and encourages it to further the spread of islam.

When I see muslims reject not only jihad, but islam as well I will embrace them. And not one second before.

38 posted on 05/23/2004 8:43:03 AM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: KeyLargo; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; Valin; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; ...
Food for thoughts!

Important article PING.

I don't have to agree with the author 100%  to feel the need to share the article.

39 posted on 05/23/2004 9:08:04 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: KeyLargo
If we flee Iraq then we deserve to have our heads sawn off by the Jihadists.


BUMP

40 posted on 05/23/2004 9:31:22 AM PDT by tm22721 (May the UN rest in peace)
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To: Freebird Forever
It's not apple and oranges at all. Most people who do not commit crimes are not out there protesting the fact that crimes are committed.

For example, I've never seen millions of Christians take to the streets of America to protest the murder of a million fetuses a year in this country. I've seen hundreds,and even thousands, but I've never seen ten to fifteen million Christians out there protesting. Does that mean that Christians approve of abortion?

Of course it doesn't, it's absurd to think that. Just like it is absurd to comment that simply because millions of Muslims haven't taken to the streets to protest "the Jihad", they in fact support it.

The facts that we are not fighting one billion Muslims, and that we are fighting alongside Muslims to defeat terrorism is irrefutable proof that at least a vast majority of Muslims do not approve of terrorism in the name of Allah. Just like the fact that the majority of American Christians do not have abortions is condemnation if the act.

"When I see muslims reject not only jihad, but islam as well I will embrace them."

So, you are a Jihadist yourself.

Physician, heal thyself.

41 posted on 05/23/2004 9:52:20 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: KeyLargo
It's not a "Clash of Civilizations".

It's a clash of Civilization vs. Barbarism.

42 posted on 05/23/2004 12:02:59 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (...and Freedom tastes of Reality)
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To: KeyLargo

Yet another Bump for a good article.


43 posted on 05/23/2004 12:36:01 PM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: nuconvert

I guess that we all should started paying attention to the Israel Police warnings to the citizens of Israel. Go to:

Israel Police
http://www.police.gov.il/english/Publications/Terror/xx_terror.asp


44 posted on 05/23/2004 3:46:59 PM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Thanks for the link. I wonder how effective those are?
Like should we be doing that here in U.S.? Or is the money spent on printing and distribution better spent on another endeavor, I wonder?


45 posted on 05/23/2004 3:53:17 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I've never seen millions of Christians take to the streets of America to protest the murder of a million fetuses a year in this country.

To denounce an atrocity and to "take to the streets" are two entirely separate endeavors.

Millions of christians are vocally opposed to abortion. And unfortunately, many "nominal" christians take a position of indifference or tacitly support the pro choice stance.

because millions of Muslims haven't taken to the streets to protest "the Jihad", they in fact support it.

There you go again with this "taking to the streets" crap, as if that were the only method of displaying objection.

The facts that we are not fighting one billion Muslims

Show me a poll of those 1 billion muslims where even a simple majority have unequivocally stated that Israel has a right to exist in peace.

I'll save you the time looking. It'll never happen. Show me a poll of any muslim population anywhere which states this. That will never happen either.

and that we are fighting alongside Muslims to defeat terrorism is irrefutable proof that at least a vast majority of Muslims do not approve of terrorism in the name of Allah.

A fledgling Iraqi defense force of questionable loyalty is irrefutable proof of nothing. For you to derive the conclusion you did from that premise without any other facts in evidence shows that you don't have a clue as to how to construct a logical argument.

"When I see muslims reject not only jihad, but islam as well I will embrace them."

So, you are a Jihadist yourself.

No Louie, just a capitalist.

islam disrupts commerce worldwide. Those directly oppressed by its yoke as well as those of other ideologies / belief systems who suffer from islams' numerous violent jihads would be better off if islam were rejected by each and every one of its' adherents and condemned to the dustbin of history.

I would then gladly embrace all of the freed hostages.

46 posted on 05/23/2004 5:17:03 PM PDT by Freebird Forever
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To: Tolik; KeyLargo

BTTT


47 posted on 05/23/2004 5:26:04 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: fourdeuce82d; Travis McGee; El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; ...

From time to time, I’ll post or ping on noteworthy articles about politics and foreign and military affairs.


48 posted on 05/23/2004 5:29:29 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: KeyLargo
"I must also fault President Bush and the administration spokesmen for not telling the American people what they really need to know about this “war”. If they don’t do that sometime between now and November it may cost them the election." The administration may talk all they like about this, but if Blather, Jennings and Brokaw don't mention it, most Americans won't hear it. Sadly.
49 posted on 05/23/2004 5:53:18 PM PDT by Zman516 (No retreat, baby, no surrender.)
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To: KeyLargo; Luis Gonzalez
However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival know has Wahhabism which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites. What this sect calls for is the complete and total rejection of anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and it finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afgani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the “third Jihad”.

Huh??

Hatred of all things Shi'ite is a basic cornerstone of radical Wahhabism.



Iraq being a strongly-Shi'te country (60-65% of the population), I expect that the Shi'ites will eventually come to complete power in Iraq following the US withdrawal (and the US must withdraw sooner or later, the occupation is financially and militarily unsustainable in an age of $500 billion dollar deficits).

This will result in a confrontation between the radical Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia (who supplied 15 of the 19 WTC hijackers) and the "Shi'ite Empire" of Iran and Iraq.

I think it's pretty well inevitable, and I say: so be it. Best we should return home, tend to our own business here in the USA, and let the Wahhabis and Shi'ites get back to their preferred mutual occupation -- killing eachother.

Whoever "wins" will still sell us oil, after all -- it's the only thing they have.

IMO as always, OP

50 posted on 05/23/2004 6:06:28 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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