Posted on 05/23/2004 11:54:30 PM PDT by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle
Calling the approval of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts "the straw that broke the camel's back," a group of Christian activists is in the beginning stages of an effort to have one state secede from the United States to become its own sovereign nation.
"Our Christian republic has declined into a pagan democracy," says Cory Burnell, president of ChristianExodus.org, a non-profit corporation based in Tyler, Texas. "There are some issues people just can't take anymore, and [same-sex marriage] might finally wake up the complacent Christians."
Burnell is leading the charge for a peaceful secession of one state from the union, and after originally considering Alabama, Mississippi and South Carolina due to their relatively small populations, coastal access, and the Christian nature of the electorate, Burnell says South Carolina has been selected as the target location.
The plan initially calls for at least 12,000 Christians willing to be active in political campaigns to move to the Palmetto State.
"We're not an invading force, we're reinforcements," Burnell tells WorldNetDaily, saying it would be a waste to move to liberal-minded states such as Massachusetts, New York or California where conservative votes would be diluted.
According to the ChristianExodus website, which is slated for a major relaunch next month, "Christians have actively tried to return our entire land to its moral foundation for more than 20 years. We can categorically say that absolutely nothing has been achieved. If you disagree, consider this:
* Abortion continues against the wishes of many states * Children may not pray in our schools * The Bible is not welcome in schools except under strict federal guidelines
* The 10 Commandments remain banned from public display * Sodomy is now legal and celebrated as 'diversity' rather than perversion
* Preaching Christianity will soon be outlawed as 'hate speech' * Gay marriage will be foisted upon us in the very near future
"All these atrocities continue in spite of the fact that we now have the 'right' people in places of power. Indeed, the occupant of the White House is a professing Christian. The U.S. attorney general is believed to be a devout Christian. 'Conservatives' control both Houses of Congress, and Republican presidents appointed seven of the nine Supreme Court justices."
The idea of moving thousands of people to affect the voting in one state is not new. As WorldNetDaily has previously reported, the Free State Project has goals of restoring certain personal liberties and limited government – but without seceding from the union. Last year, a group of 4,500 libertarians decided New Hampshire would be the best state.
S. Carolina state flag
Burnell, a math teacher and cell-phone dealer, stresses he's not looking for bloody battles that took place in the American Revolution and the Civil War, but is rather seeking a "political divorce."
"It's got to be different today," he says. "It has to be peaceful, brokered."
But he admits if the federal government decides to use military force to stop the effort, "Then it can't happen."
Already a dozen people are actively working on the project, and some 1,500 by e-mails of support have been received.
If all goes according to plan, Burnell is hoping to have a constitutional convention by 2014, with a president of the new nation – still to be known as South Carolina – elected in 2016, which is also a presidential election year in the U.S.
He says the nation would be founded on Christian principles, and the people writing its constitution would have to hash out details to safeguard it as a Christian republic.
For now, Burnell prefers to shy away from specifics on the precise laws governing the country.
"Independence first, details later," he says.
Bump.
"No, you never once answered any questions germane to the subject. You just emoted. Again, please answer the questions or cease posting comments to the thread."
A bit feisty, aren't you? Put your energies toward enacting change in this country.
I'll decide what I post, and when. So long as I stay within the acceptable guidelines as a guest on this forum, I expect I'll remain here.
Normally, I'd not let someone embarass themselves as long as you have, but something needs to get through to people like you, even if you are beyond the reach of reason.
In your delusion, you've made the case against secession yourself better than I could have ever articulated it myself.
I hope you get your own private Idaho one day, but for sure it won't be in this country.
Thanks for playing.
You;re the one who said you didn't want to interact anymore, you dumb ass. Now, either answer the questions or kiss off. You're maiking yourself look incredibly ignorant and stupid (not that you would know the difference between the two).
"you dumb ass"
"kiss off"
"You're maiking yourself look incredibly ignorant and stupid (not that you would know the difference between the two)."
Are you going to put some of this eloquent prose in the Constitution you are supposedly writing for this new "country" of yours?
I'll bet it goes something like this:
"......are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, except for certain 'dumb asses' who will 'kiss off' if they do not do exactly as I say"
yes....I am sure it will be quite the piece of work.
Please answer the questions or kiss off.
"Please answer the questions or kiss off."
Your question has been answered, simply not in the context that you prefer. You really don't understand that, do you?
I thought you were just being stubborn, I guess it must be something else.
I'll say it again.....we disagree. You have no right to secede peacefully or otherwise.
There is one way you might achieve a similar end, and that is to gain political control of a statehouse (sorry, you'll have to do this democratically.....) and then start reasserting your 10th Amendment states rights. It'll be tough going politically - as you'll have to do without federal funding for all sorts of things that your state's citizens probably want while the case winds it's way to the Supreme Court.....and you might lose in the end, or get tossed out democratically.
And that's the basic problem, you reject democracy, really, unless it is by folks who are exactly like you - in the end you will not be keen to relinquish power to 'dumb asses' who don't think like you do.
You know you can never get elected, so you seek secession.
There. That's the second practical alternative I've given you on this thread. But no, it's your own country or bust.
It's not perfect, but I still love this country. It would be more perfect, in my opinion, without you and your movement, which is all about power and control, not about Christian values. I understand that. Most of the folks in your movement don't, no doubt, and will merely follow blindly until someone explains it to them.
How do you like the way I've framed your quest now?
Again, please answer the questions originally asked or kiss off. Regurgitating non-germane points is not an answer.
Interesting
How about Los Angeles, lol.
Oh, but they ARE germane......You just don't want to address them because they make you and your movement uncomfortable. Your questions are the ones not germane to your goals - but I answered them anyway - and you just didn't like the answer.
The American Revolution is hardly germane to a secessionist movement in present day America, except to point out, our country is worth fighting for then, and now.
Please answer the questions or kiss off.
You write a lot, but you avoid the main thesis. I must say you are losing your debate with tame rather badly.
And right next door I'll open the casino and smoke shop.
Tour busses welcome.
"You write a lot, but you avoid the main thesis. I must say you are losing your debate with tame rather badly."
LOL. You tell your ol' buddy tame the same thing I told him.....I'd be happy to discuss the American Revolution with him on a seperate thread, but I won't dignify his secessionist movement by comparing it with the American Revolution. George Washington thought it was necessary, that's good enough for me.
NOW....if you and your secessionist buddies want to address how they are going to use armed rebellion to get what they want, THEN we have a valid comparison. Since they have avowed that they will not do this, presumably because their cause isn't worth fighting for (which is a point we can ALL agree on), then the point is moot. If they don't want to fight for it, why should I argue the point?
I AM definitely interested in the Revolutionary War, and will participate most vigorously if he'd like to start another thread.
This thread is about cowardly, traitorous so-called Christians who want their own country, but don't want to get a scratch doing the heavy lifting. They fancy themselves a modern day "exodus" movement, they are run by a politburo that won't even identify themselves on their own website.
Now, if you thing that tame and his red-herring debating style is something to admire, then I guess I HAVE lost the debate, at least with you. However, I think most people can see that this is a movement about control, not about Christianity. I've given tame the opportunity to comment on two options that are actually valid
#1 pursue a distinct society, like the Quakers in Pennsylvania - there is an argument to be made for this, and the numbers are about right for them to pursue this
#2 Pursue a statehouse (like they are doing) but instead of secession, pursue a 10th Amendment argument.
These are workable, and noble American options.
The other one is folly, and cowardly. They won't accept a system the doesn't give them everything they want. TFB. Get out, buy an island, and pursue their folly there.
Now, I wonder what your pals think about THAT?
"And right next door I'll open the casino and smoke shop.
Tour busses welcome."
You'll go broke. They won't have any money. After they choke on their portion of the National Debt, they'll all be reduced to subsistence farming and scavenging. They'll have all the comforts of North Korea, a pillar of morality and justice.
Even the porest amongst us seem to scrape up enough money for smokes and lottery tickets.
You might want to answer the questions are do what you said you were going to do, and that is, give it up.
"You might want to answer the questions are do what you said you were going to do, and that is, give it up."
what, answer them again, red-herring man? ;^)
Well, anyway, I was just trying to help you avoid embarrasing yourself. Like I've stated, I am not a secessionist, and I can think of several lines of reasoning that directly answer tame's questions--a way that provides a strong rebuttal.
You embarrass those of us who may be inclined to agree by simply saying, in effect, "well, I don't know how to answer your main point, tame, so I'll just direct myself to points that have nothing to do with the justification and differences between the A.r. and secession."
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